Starting this thread to follow through on my Head and throttle body porting followed by a Tune and dyno using a Power Commander. On to the first part. Here are a few pics of the head removal.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0041.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0043.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0044.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0045.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0046.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0047.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0048.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0051.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0052.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0057.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0058.jpg

Now this is what a great forum is made off....

Look below

Is that a crack between the ports?

Casting line. Youve not looked in alot of cylinder heads, they all have em somewere. Thats were the 2 halves of the mold join together when the foundery cast the head:-)

I'm excited to see what kind of numbers I can put down when its all back together. To let everyone else in on things I'm sending VelociRaptor my cam and chain sprocket so he can compare it to a 650 cam he has. Hopefully we can use one on this build! Also everyone may notice the rich condition I was running, This was with the 3rd optimizer setting on a 5.5, obviously its too much. I will be more than glad to share the map they build for me for the PowerCommander also.

Casting line. Youve not looked in alot of cylinder heads, they all have em somewere. Thats were the 2 halves of the mold join together when the foundery cast the head:-)


Not many multi valve aluminum heads, most of my experience is with SB, BB Chevy, B.O.P. cast iron heads and 2-strokes.

Now that I look at it again I see the casting line run all the way up to the valve seat.

Automotive industry is were I started, ported many LSX/SBC/BBF/SBF heads- aluminum and iron.

This would prolly void my 5 year warranty...

When I bought my Raptor the sales manager started to ask if I wanted an extended warranty and stopped....he new better. 3 months later it had a piston swap and ported cylinder head.

Before intake:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xx4.jpg
After intake:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xxafter3.jpg

Before exhaust:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xx6.jpg
After exhaust:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xxafter2.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xxafter1.jpg

honestly .. i dont think cylinder head porting would void the warranty. If anything ... it should only make covering the engine much easier. Now if you started replacing vital components ... pistons, cams, valves ..ect ..well yeah bye warranty.

historically ..the heritage to this motor is extraordinarily strong. Honda made the 650r motor damn near bulletproof with tons of headroom for modification ... its almost like they expected people to push it to the extremes.

One thing is certain ... a Honda engineered engine is much more friendly for upgrades... sure they are generally heavier motors ..but its only because they havent over-engineered their stuff - which ultimately leads to superior reliability and longevity.

I look forward to the results of yall's motor project. if it works out ... im game as well and you can sign me up. I have confidence this 686cc motor will outcrank anything else any other atv manufacturer has thrown in their machine ..

why do i have this faith and confidence? well duh ..its a honda!

Got to get the piston and cam manufacturers on the ball.....

HotCams has three cams In R&D already, Last I talked to them they should be ready for the end of Feb or early March.

I remember back in the summer of 06 I was in this boat, nothing availible yet except a piston or two lol. The parts will come!

I've been in contact with Kibblewhite and waiting response today on custom +1mm black diamond Intake valves and stock size black diamond exhaust.. I would like to get a custom piston from CP but not wanting to tear further into the bike...

Why not? Your gonna have to tear it down to put it in when they send it to ya anyway. Hell, go get a stock piston from Honda and send it to em lol.

Here are some pics the guys on a xr650r forum posted for me. I was talking with VelociRaptor the other day and he mentioned the XR had 37mm valves. I asked the guys there for some specs and Bo compared them to mine... There a match!

Stock 700xx Intake 36mm, Exhaust 32mm
Stock xr650r Intake 37mm, Exhaust 32mm
The lengths and valve stem diameter are perfect matches.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IntakeValve.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/intakevalve3.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/Intakevalve2jpg.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IntakeValve1.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/Exhaustvalve.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/exhaustvalve2.jpg

Here is a link to the thread,
http://hondaxr650r.forummotion.com/xrr-main-discussion-f1/valve-spec-help-t166.htm#802

Wow the 650r guys are nice!

Supernice. We are also lookin into the 102mm XR670R piston to see if it will be a swap over for the XX. The 650 has a different stroke so we will have to look at the pin placement and size.

I ran some numbers on a compression calculator and if the piston does fit a 11:1 XR piston will come out to 11.4:1 in a XX. Should be fine if its a match. Waiting on some pics to see if the valve reliefs are similar. Another note would be the 24mm XX wrist pin, the XR is smaller but may be able to be opened a bit

By what Ive seen pistons usually dont end up being what they say they are anyway. An 11:1 isnt a true 11:1 in most cases. What size is the pin in the XX?

24mm

HA, I mean on the XR! The 700 Raptor is 23mm.

Here is the XR valve springs

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/005-2.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/004-1.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/003-1.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/001-2.jpg

The XX spring is 1.768" tall and 1.105" outside diameter. Thats gonna be different from aftermarket springs/seats/retainers though anyway.

Here are the XR and XX pistons, Only difference is the XR has a 23mm wrist and the XX is 24mm. Not going to try and makeshift a pin or bore the XR wrist pin hole. Back to phone calls with CP Wiseco etc.

XR
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/008.jpg

XX
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0047.jpg

Man im getting confused with all this XX XR swaping out parts for performance. hopefully one of you guys would be nice enough to put a parts list together for us dummys. i was just gonna wait for aftermarket parts to come out but it looks like ya'll are gonna make your own perofrmance parts. lol.

lol the past few days have been busy trying to source all this info, Me and Bo have been working together everyday exchanging info trying to get this together. Here's a break down of what we got so far. (XR stands for XR650r, A legendary Honda dirtbike that our motors are based on)

Cams: XR cams will work.... Need to swap over decomp from the XX cam

Valves: XR Valves will work...

Valve Springs: ???... They are similar but would have to mount and check for binding etc. We don't have any on hand to mount and second my block is in La. and Head is in Al. with Bo

Pistons: Yes but no... The outer dimensions or a go but the XR wrist pin is 23mm and the XX is 24mm. You COULD bore the pin hole or turn the pin but I don't want to be the Guinnie Pig lol

I made it in from offshore today and pulled the piston. I will be sending it to CP or JE tuesday, Waiting on there prices. Wiseco price was 260 with a 4 order minimum but but everyone has suggested CP and JE over Wiseco so that'll be my route. Here are a fre pics.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0095.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0098.jpg

AntiFriction Coating OEM, pretty nice. Is this norm with other bikes?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0102.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0103.jpg

My shop manual came in also, nice to have for specs and all.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0099.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0101.jpg

Awesome for the stock piston to be like that lol.
Take a dial caliper and see what it measures from the top of the wristpin hole to the top of the piston. Bet it mics out at .650"......

Them skirts are mighty small too, i was surprised how little they were. I went to get my caliper and somebody must've borrowed it... Da box was empty. I'll check it out when i find where its at. So most bikes don't have the coating?

No.

Be sure to stick a wrag down around the rod when ya take the clip out from the wrist pin. Dont wanna have that thing drop down into the case!

This is the stock 700 Raptor piston(10cc dish top):
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/stockpiston1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/stockpiston2.jpg

Close .680, The piston is Forged also. The raptors looks cast, is it?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0108.jpg

No its forged, its been bead blasted(cleaned it up monday). If the Raptor had a 24mm pin it would mic at .650"

When ya send that piston off tell em you want plenty of valve reliefs for large cams.

Few other items... K&N Oil Filter +3HP (Jus Joking... Really +2)
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0116.jpg

And something I purchased but can't figure where it goes lol, someone enlighten me?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0125.jpg

Few other items... K&N Oil Filter +3HP (Jus Joking... Really +2)


And something I purchased but can't figure where it goes lol, someone enlighten me?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0125.jpg

thats a muffler bearing support.

Piston return spring maybe?

Power band tensioner?

No... It's a cruise control lever.

those go over the chain sprockets. judging from the size of it ..looks like it would go over the rear ..but i could be incorrect ... but it does indeed go over a chain sprocket.

those go over the chain sprockets. judging from the size of it ..looks like it would go over the rear ..but i could be incorrect ... but it does indeed go over a chain sprocket.


X2

It's to save your case from your chain (hence the name)

I never needed one but it would go between your front sprocket and your engine.

Ahh good news today! CP are the ones I am going to have make the pistons. They had an even better price than Wiseco. They also mentioned they didn't intend to put a piston out this year so waiting was'nt an option. I am heading out the door now to mail them mine so that they can start on it. Wait time is only about 3 weeks and the price per will be somewhere between 210-250. Only thing needed to be decided is compression ratio. I am thinking 11.5:1 since I can only run 93 octane. Anyone serious about a purchase let me know your thoughts. This order will only only be for four pistons.

im interested in a piston swap and i think 11.5:1 is perfect compression for this bike with other mods but im not exactly ready to that yet, im still waiting to do my BIG 3. but if need by i can prolly make a purchase.

Since these are gonna be YOUR pistons made by CP I would call em the smo0oth pistons! Your pioneering alot of stuff for the XX guys that will need this info/parts/services later. Sure there are companies that have built XXs for race teams but you are doing it for the regular Joe.

im interested in a piston swap and i think 11.5:1 is perfect compression for this bike with other mods but im not exactly ready to that yet, im still waiting to do my BIG 3. but if need by i can prolly make a purchase.


Cool, If you help I'll install it also if needed.

Since these are gonna be YOUR pistons made by CP I would call em the smo0oth pistons! Your pioneering alot of stuff for the XX guys that will need this info/parts/services later. Sure there are companies that have built XXs for race teams but you are doing it for the regular Joe.


I'll have to get them engraved lol, The valves make it to you yet?

Not yet.

one of my concerns is that with swaping the cam, boring the TB and Head, porting and polishing the head, higher compression, nobody says anything about a new or bigger injector, or fuel pump.

Its crossed my mind but I haven't had time to find the injector size, I'll figure the limits before its all over though. I doubt a larger injector will be needed though, The stock fuel pump should be big enough to support a larger injector if needed though.

Shouldnt be an issue but you dont know until you start tuning these bikes. The Raptor stock injector and pump will handle 80rwhp.

Valves are here.

Seats are cut and the valves are lapped in(notice the line on the valves were they laped in perfectly. Seats were cut on a buddys Surdi machine, just need to blend the port into the first angle:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xxafter4.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h15/Bo_White/xxafter5.jpg

Looking good, Can't wait to get it back

Thats some good work right there.

Well its been awhile since I posted so This is just a little update on whats going on. I recently got my head back from Bo and the work is fantastic! The pics don't justfiy the work. I'm hoping to find a cracked head in due time so we can cut it to see the porting limits of them. The design of XX head may limit high rpm output but will create tons of useful idle on up HP.
The pistons are still in the works and about 3 weeks out, I had a set back because I didn't get the deck height at TDC and CP had to mail me the piston back so I could reinstall it and get the measurement. I will be running a 12:1 in mine but will also have some 11:1 made for use with stock cams.

I called today to get a idea of when my pistons would arrive and was told definately would have them in hand within 2 weeks. Also I have sent my extra head and cam to Web for cam development and may have cams in hand within 4 weeks! Lastly the titanium retainers are ready and awaiting shipment. When I receive my head back I will have it ported also and will be doing core swaps for unported heads so there will be minimal downtime on your builds.

Pfff... Well I got a call from CP.... Bastards have pushed my pistons back to ship out when Alba's do :steamed:! The release date will be March 12th. This one is for you CP :birds: I'm not surprised though. But anyway I did get my Titanium retainers, copper/nickel valve guides & oversize intake valves from Kibblewhite.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0013.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0014.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0016.jpg

You didnt need guides.

I know but I'm kinda OCD when it comes to little things, Figured since the guides are cut down for ported heads it wouldn't hurt to have the best. There very cheap also, only about 20 bucks or so.

Figured I'd post a pick of the Bored Throttle Body here also, Kenny at KDS Racing bored it out to a 47mm. (Sorry for the bad pics)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/DSCF5540.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/DSCF5548.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/DSCF5550.jpg

Wow, I just read this whole thread and it made me goo in my pants!

How much of a gain are you expecting with the bored TB?

Wow, I just read this whole thread and it made me goo in my pants!

lol, Everything has started to fall together this past week and I should be hitting the trails in 2-3 weeks

How much of a gain are you expecting with the bored TB?

Hard to say, from looking at other quad builds I'd say 1-2hp

lol, Everything has started to fall together this past week and I should be hitting the trails in 2-3 weeks
Please take video! I want to see this beast in action!:yay:

lol, Everything has started to fall together this past week and I should be hitting the trails in 2-3 weeks

Feel like making a trip out to sand hill atv? We could have the 1st ever Club700xx meet. 3 members count as a meet right?

I'll be there either next Friday or next Saturday (the 20th or 21st). I'll let you know as I get a clearer weather forecast.

It'll be close, I'll definately go If I can pull everything together and get it tuned. My cams came in last Friday so all I need is my pistons.

If you don't have it finished you can ride on the back. Careful though I'll dump you off of you rest your head on my back.


Ahahhahahahaha

I'lll just bring my wake board and rope!

Pistons are finally ready but... I just got offshore for my 2 weeks. So... If all goes well I will Finally be able to get my bike back together and hit some trails! It has been sort of a blessing its been down because my wrist is still sensitive from hitting a root 3 months ago on my last ride.No doubt I would have done hit the trails and injured it further if it were running. If funds permit I will install a Steering damper also.

But anyway there will be (4) 11:1's and (4) 12:1's available, If anyone is interested they'll be around 260.00. If they are all placed within the first two weeks after I dyno I could do them a bit cheaper. They do have the side coating as stock also.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0394.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0395.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0396.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0397.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/IMG_0399.jpg

Looks like I'll be there (Wiggins) around Labor day.

Hurry up and get it together before then!

Nice

Thanks for sharing this over on supermotojunkie.com.

Interesting that they went 1mm smaller on all of the valves for a bigger displacement motor.

If you want more info about the 650 motor and what parts may or may not fit I recommend the Thumpertalk forum. Lots of well informed people over there.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Just posting a bit of info that may be useful to others later. When everything is all said and done we can maybe make a sticky with some of these numbers

Head is 55cc

Stock Springs: Seated Pressure 65lbs, Open Pressure 150lbs, Coil Bind .455 (Maximum safe cam lift .435)

There a bunch of other numbers I got written down but to lazy to get them tonite, I was just bored so this is what I can remember lol I'll make a post later though with all the measurements and limits I have come across in the build
T

Thanks for those numbers, you just saved a bunch a people money on their car ins...I mean rebuild.

I found this for locating a dyno. Scroll to the bottom, type in your zip and find a dyno. :)

http://www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/list_atvkart.aspx

38 miles away...

Killeen Powersports Telephone: 254-634-0371 3701 East Central Texas Expressway Email : service@killeenpowersports.com Killeen, TX 76543 Website: www.killeenpowersports.com/ (http://www.killeenpowersports.com/) Model 250ix 38 miles

A little more random info

Stock valve
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0403.jpg

+1mm KibbleWhite Valve
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0404.jpg

Stock Exhaust Valve
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0405.jpg

KibbleWhite Valve
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0406.jpg

Stock Retainer
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0407.jpg

Titanium Retainer
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0408.jpg

Also I had originally purchased a set of XR650R valve springs and fitted them. Without shims they only have 39lbs of seat pressure and 150lbs at full open. I contacted kibblewhite and they made some that fit without shims. They should be released for sale in 2-3 weeks.

On the build this morning I've got it all bolted up except for the valve cover/rocker assembly. I forgot some of my dowel pins at the machine shop so have to wait till the morning to get them. Unless there is something I'm clearly missing I will have it at the Honda shop Tuesday morning on the Dyno for tuning
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0409.jpg

Awesome!

its tuesday!!!!!!

Yes it is!

Soooooo... About those dyno numbers?:D

subscribing, btw its wed. meow

WooHoo.... Ahhh Fuck!

Ok, Long Story short.... First I find out last Monday that the XR650R Hardened Rockers I ordered do not fit. So I call my machine shop and have him harden the stock ones I have ASAP and he comes through for me by the end of the day. Pics Below

XR650R Rockers, You can see where I am pointing there is a gap allowing it to move side to side
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0412.jpg

700XX Rockers, Here you can see they are longer preventing them from walking on the shaft
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0416.jpg

Next I button it all back up, and it fires up on the first spin... Hell yea.... But heart break sets in. I can here a rattle. At first I hope its the 93 octane still in the line pinging, but In the back of my mind I know its the valves hitting the piston because during the mock up there was minimal clearance but I went ahead hoping it was just enough. Well It wasn't.

I was a bit disgusted with it yesterday and didnt even bother opening it up, so this afternoon I got around to it. The contact was so minimal it didnt even scare the piston but you can see where it was touching by the dark spots in the corner. Back to CP the pistons go... I go offshore tomorrow for another 14 and I'm hoping they can get correct this by the time I get back in. To the pics

The marks are so light you cant even feel them. There only visible
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0430.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0431.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0432.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/smo0oth1/700XX/IMG_0435.jpg

On a positive note though it sounded great and the throttle response was very snappy. The idle was a little high but I suppose its from the bored throttle body. This being the most serious problem so far really isn't that bad, I'm just glad nothing came apart lol

Excellent work, and thank you for the updates.

Wow, thanks for the updates and photos! Sorry to hear about the issues but thank god you didn't grenade the motor. Good luck and let us know how things go!:yay:

So if you grind the piston to so that it doesn't obstruct the valve will that change the compression much?

No it want change much. If CP will not take the piston's back that's prolly what I'll do. If I didn't have the high lift cam it wouldn't be a problem and have plenty of clearance. I'm back offshore this morning for 14 days so I can't do much till then. I will be contacting CP today to see what there thoughts are. The cam I have is a 435 lift which is not drastic and should not be to blame. I had contacted Alba a few weeks back to be nosey and find out how there pistons were coming, They stated they had to send them back to make some changes, Wondering if it was the same problem...

I keep getting hints from Matt @ Alba about something coming, nothing concrete yet though.

Again though, I wanted to stress that I think you're doing great work.

Thank you!

Also to share a bit more, the stock valve guides is the limiting lift factor in the XX heads. In order to get a higher lift cam you have to get another set of guides or cut the stock guides down. If running a ported head you will have to get the ampco guides because you will be shortening the guide on the top and bottom, With the Ampco's you will have to cut the valve spring seat retainer to accept the ampco guide. If you are running a unported head you can use the stock guide. The cost of a fully built head is going to be a bit higher on these bikes than others due to the machine work involved.

They will more than likely tell ya that you should have clayed it up and measured the piston to valve clearances before firing the engine. They will work with ya on the pistons but with a fee more than likely. The valve reliefs seem to need another .100" removed from them or relocating the valve reliefs or a combination of both. Its like the valve reliefs in the Wiseco, CP, and JE pistons for the 700 Raptor- the Wiseco's intake valve reliefs are not large enough in diamter, the CPs exhaust valve reliefs arent deed enough and the JEs are not deep enough on both the intake and exhaust. This is something thats well known and just worked around when they are used. I flycut every CP piston that comes to me for a build weither I assemble it or not.

Another thing are the valve guides, as long as the guide is 5 times in length as the stem diameter you will be fine no matter the guide type as long as the retainer to seal clearance is were it needs to be. Like in the 700 Raptor market, some porters are using the shorter 660 valve guides in their cylinder heads but this is more by porting porting style than actual requirements of clerances and measurements. Some press the guide out of the cylinder head, port all of the guide boss out and they install a shorter guide to stick out of the roof of the port and some do not. I personally just remove what can be and still be reliable in length.

They will more than likely tell ya that you should have clayed it up and measured the piston to valve clearances before firing the engine. They will work with ya on the pistons but with a fee more than likely. The valve reliefs seem to need another .100" removed from them or relocating the valve reliefs or a combination of both. Its like the valve reliefs in the Wiseco, CP, and JE pistons for the 700 Raptor- the Wiseco's intake valve reliefs are not large enough in diamter, the CPs exhaust valve reliefs arent deed enough and the JEs are not deep enough on both the intake and exhaust. This is something thats well known and just worked around when they are used. I flycut every CP piston that comes to me for a build weither I assemble it or not.

I did a mock up and there was clearance... Not hardly any, but there was some. I figured it was worth a try but as you see it didn't squeek by. All I am asking them to do is cut the pockets deeper, Shouldn't be a problem. I only hope they can do it in a reasonable time. I am going to keep the one I used and have my machine shop cut it so I can get it back together the first few days I'm in and get this wrapped up.

Another thing are the valve guides, as long as the guide is 5 times in length as the stem diameter you will be fine no matter the guide type as long as the retainer to seal clearance is were it needs to be. Like in the 700 Raptor market, some porters are using the shorter 660 valve guides in their cylinder heads but this is more by porting porting style than actual requirements of clerances and measurements. Some press the guide out of the cylinder head, port all of the guide boss out and they install a shorter guide to stick out of the roof of the port and some do not. I personally just remove what can be and still be reliable in length.

If I remember correctly the stock ones use a shoulder to hold it in place and the the ampco has ribs that seat in the hole of the head. When you cut the top of the stock one it could slip, the ampco will not. It wasn't to much of an issue of the length. For the few bucks the ampco cost you and a slight advantage over stock I just see it worth the cost if the head is apart already.

You need .080" clearance on the intake valves and .100" on the exhaust to be completely safe.

You back yet smoOoth?

Bo, what's up with you taking a break on porting? Sucks dude! LOL

I just wanted to let everyone know I received my kit from Alba last Friday in time for the long weekend of riding. Here is a list of things I ordered and had done.

1) Stage 3 Desert & Endurance kit with the upgraded "hardened" rocker arms.
2) The head was ported and flowed with Alba's Superflow flow bench. The head port configuration included +1mm oversized intake valves as well as a
5-angle valve job.
3) Piston is forged and has an 11:1 compression ratio.
4) Camshaft with Alba custom grind specifically for the 700XX kit.
5) Valve spring kit with titanium retainers.
6) Throttle body taper-bored to 46mm.
7) Velocity Intake Kit
8) Power Commander V w/Auto Tune.
9) FMF Slip-on Speed Muffler.

I am very pleased with the kit and the performance is very good. I will do an oil change this weekend and get it over to DynoJet early next week and post my results.
Also anyone considering this kit, don't worry about down time Turn around is very quick and customer service is superb. I have never had anyone treat me as good as Matt. He let me know when he received my parts let me know progress and when it was shipping.

I just wanted to let everyone know I received my kit from Alba last Friday in time for the long weekend of riding. Here is a list of things I ordered and had done.

1) Stage 3 Desert & Endurance kit with the upgraded "hardened" rocker arms.
2) The head was ported and flowed with Alba's Superflow flow bench. The head port configuration included +1mm oversized intake valves as well as a
5-angle valve job.
3) Piston is forged and has an 11:1 compression ratio.
4) Camshaft with Alba custom grind specifically for the 700XX kit.
5) Valve spring kit with titanium retainers.
6) Throttle body taper-bored to 46mm.
7) Velocity Intake Kit
8) Power Commander V w/Auto Tune.
9) FMF Slip-on Speed Muffler.

I am very pleased with the kit and the performance is very good. I will do an oil change this weekend and get it over to DynoJet early next week and post my results.
Also anyone considering this kit, don't worry about down time Turn around is very quick and customer service is superb. I have never had anyone treat me as good as Matt. He let me know when he received my parts let me know progress and when it was shipping.

NICE! Can't wait to see those numbers!:yay:

Here are the results of my Dyno Runs.
This is stock HP
http://98.160.184.128:9000/shares/Host/700xx/TRXSTK700XX.jpg
This one:
Blue is FMF Speed slip-on, Red FMF Speed + PCV
http://98.160.184.128:9000/shares/Host/700xx/img004.jpg
This One:
Blue is a previous run, Red is 1) Stage 3 Desert & Endurance kit with the upgraded "hardened" rocker arms. 2) The head was ported and flowed with Alba's Superflow flow bench. The head port configuration included +1mm oversized intake valves as well as a 5-angle valve job. 3) Piston is forged and has an 11:1 compression ratio. 4) Camshaft with Alba custom grind specifically for the 700XX kit. 5) Valve spring kit with titanium retainers. 6) Throttle body taper-bored to 46mm. 7) Velocity Intake Kit 8) Power Commander V w/Auto Tune. 9) FMF Slip-on Speed Muffler.
http://98.160.184.128:9000/shares/Host/700xx/trx700.jpgThis one same as above with Blue = Torque
http://98.160.184.128:9000/shares/Host/700xx/TRX.jpg

What's the difference between the red and blue? They both say FMF Slip-on.

Blue was prolly stock programmer and the red was PCV. (or he could have been drawring a mountain. )

Okay, so the red just means he drove up the mountain and then ramped off the other side. Nice hangtime, MFR!! LOL

Yeah my 4 year old draws WAY better than that.

:lmao::funny:

I revised the previous post so that it is better understandable.

Yeah my 4 year old draws WAY better than that.

I was kidding with this post btw. :D

Now I need feedback. By changing the cam, valves, porting ETC.. I have a huge loss of HP up to about 5400 RPMs before I get increase over previous setup. I see no gains in Torque. I am no expert interpreting this info so this is where you guys come in. Will I be faster now in a flat drag? at the Dunes in a Up Hill Race? across the Desert on a Fire Road? ETC ETC............ Let me know the Pros and Cons to these results.

Thanks

Now I need feedback. By changing the cam, valves, porting ETC.. I have a huge loss of HP up to about 5400 RPMs before I get increase over previous setup. I see no gains in Torque. I am no expert interpreting this info so this is where you guys come in. Will I be faster now in a flat drag? at the Dunes in a Up Hill Race? across the Desert on a Fire Road? ETC ETC............ Let me know the Pros and Cons to these results.

Thanks

OK......what does this all mean.

First up; yep ya have a huge loss up to 5400rpm, that is an issue as max HP is made at 6700rpm so thats less than 1500rpm to realisticly play with.

You now have good over rev (6700rpm ~ 8000rpm) but unless you play that far up in the rev range it really won't do too much for you.

Just tooling around with your freinds will be a pain as down low you do have 5hp less at 4000rpm.

Now for the good stuff........

When I look at ATV dyno's I like to check the spread of hp not only the max hp.

I usually do this at 35 and 40hp.......remember 40hp at the wheels is about max hp for a stock 450.

You did have 40hp or more from 5300rpm to 7600 rpm.......(2300rpm spread)
You now have 40hp or more from 5400rpm to 8600rpm......(3200rpm spread)

Thats a conciderable increase in your powerband; the issue is that its all up top. You will most likely have to adjust how you ride the 700XX to get the most out of it.

What to do?

Firstly get the headder; a slip-on just wont cut it when you have a bigger TB and intake valves. You have all this flow ability with enlarged this and that but it's all bunged up at the exhaust.......

Also you should check with Alba but I think a little bit of experementing with different cams could do you alot of good........Alba mild cam? even the stock cam. I'm sure this will give you very different results.

Linc

Thanks for your explanation. Adjusting my riding style should be no problem. I am first on the waiting list for a Full exhaust from ALBA. Matt at ALBA said I needed to get a full exhaust too, but right now I am just playing the waiting game.

If your running the knobbies on the dyno you may not be getting the true picture, a set of slicks or road tires maybe something to consider for future dyno runs.

I would be disappointed of that was my bike.

I just wanted to let everyone know I received my kit from Alba last Friday in time for the long weekend of riding. Here is a list of things I ordered and had done.

1) Stage 3 Desert & Endurance kit with the upgraded "hardened" rocker arms.
2) The head was ported and flowed with Alba's Superflow flow bench. The head port configuration included +1mm oversized intake valves as well as a
5-angle valve job.
3) Piston is forged and has an 11:1 compression ratio.
4) Camshaft with Alba custom grind specifically for the 700XX kit.
5) Valve spring kit with titanium retainers.
6) Throttle body taper-bored to 46mm.
7) Velocity Intake Kit
8) Power Commander V w/Auto Tune.
9) FMF Slip-on Speed Muffler.

I am very pleased with the kit and the performance is very good. I will do an oil change this weekend and get it over to DynoJet early next week and post my results.
Also anyone considering this kit, don't worry about down time Turn around is very quick and customer service is superb. I have never had anyone treat me as good as Matt. He let me know when he received my parts let me know progress and when it was shipping.

Wow, were you paid to crap on my thread lol?

you know I didn't get paid. besides, that was months ago. Since then I have installed a much needed full exhaust after all the mods. I am pretty sure Alba used alot of the same products you have, So performance should be compairably equal.

Well to catch everyone up on the build, it has been together for a few months now and holding strong after over 200hrs. I have sold this same kit to two others locally and they have had the same results. My first dyno we done 62hp and 51ft lbs with a lean a/f. The local honda dealership were nut jobs and it was the worst experience I had yet with the build. i took it home later and up'd the maps a bit and have ran it like that since. I am scheduled to dyno it again at another shop this week and I will share that map if anyone needs it.

I would like to thank Bo White and Kenny for there effort in this build. Bo's port work is top notch and I highly recommend him. On that same note, due to the long distance relationship (lol) with Bo any heads I sell will be from my local machine shop. with some of the builds different things need to be done to the head and its alot easier to do it hands on. I will share all my info i have came across with him in appreciation for the work he done for me so that his will be just as good. The other two builds I have are running my local machined heads and I hope to get one of them to the dyno with me to confirm performance.

I would like to mention that I am not here to get in a pissing match with other vendors either on who and what is better. I started this build as a club700xx community project and was doing it for me as much as I was doing it to help others make performance. I do have items available at very competitive prices to help anyone meet there goal. I'm not looking to quit my day job for this so i can help others in the process and help myself make a few bucks to continue doing builds. I'm currently waiting to see how well things hold up after 3-400 hours then continue to look into big bore and stroker kits.

Sooooo.... back to the bike! this thing is BadAss!!! I can hang with all the dirt bikes in the woods and smoke everything i come across. you can burn the tires up on black top without holding the brake and spin through 3rd gear on dirt. I can idle in first over bumps and hills then zip through the gears in a second apart. Its addicitve lol, Hope soon to make a local ride with some of the guys on here so they can experience what i am talking about.

Thanx for the update, thought you moved off shore of something lol.

There were other reasons i hadn't got back on in a while but not going to get into it, its done.... I seen in another post someone mentioned your not porting anymore or was that rumor?

I still do here and there. I may be full time porter next year though as I may loose my job at Mercedes Benz at the end of the year.

BTW, email me the map you are runnin and the dyno sheet with fuel curve so I can tweak it for ya.

Hope soon to make a local ride with some of the guys on here so they can experience what i am talking about.

You guys plan a ride out to MS or i'll plan one to TX. I'm sure Gary's down for either (i know how much he likes red river) Lets get this going!

I can do either, next weekend I am siding my house so i wont be able to go until a month from now when i get back in from offshore. I come back in Oct 22nd for 2 weeks and can go either weekend that hitch

I'll do either, next weekend I am siding my house so i wont be able to go until a month from now when i get back in from offshore. I come back in Oct 22nd for 2 weeks and can go either weekend that hitch

Gary will be the deciding factor in MS or TX since he has been to both. It's VERY hard (specially right now) to beat the riding we have at our "local" spot here in Texas. Everything from sand to TECHNICAL stuff. This is a 2500 acre playground for experience in the trails. In one weekend we wont hit 1/2 the trails here - maybe close. Not to mention this is place the RedBull Last Man Standing has been been held from like 04' - 07'

http://www.redrivermotorcycletrails.com/ - look for another thread so i dont clutter this one.

I know it's an old thread but what camshaft you did used in this set-up?