http://www.sonicoffroad.com/Anti%20Roll%20Systems.html

im wondering if these work with aftermarket a-arms? anyway .... found these as im always looking for stuff for this 700xx.

I was looking at the same ones. Adding the wheel spacers has helped a lot, but I still miss the feeling of sliding with a straight axle quad.

My lower back loves the independent suspension though.

yeah ..thats what im wondering.... what effect does the bar have on suspension. the design doesnt seem to interfere with the actual suspension itself .... and the issue of pushing seems like it could be solved with stiffer slow rebound on the rear ..which would require a 4way adjustable rear shock ..and reading through the website with these bars ... my quad flies around corners on a tt track the way it stands ... proper tires is 90% of the battle...

anyway ..just my 2 cents ... i did send an inquiry to the manufacturer ...and also asked them if they would be willing to make/manufacture some rear a-arm that are 2" out and 1-2" back .. so we will see what happens.

I believe that a front sway bar would make it ride worse. If anything I would get a stiffer rear swaybar. (if it were available)

Now this is just my $.02 and I'm be far no suspension person, but I do know that the front end needs to be able to work for trail riding. Adding a sway bar in the front would make technical trails nightmarish.

i spoke with sonic ... they will indeed make long-travel rear a-arms. they are looking for someone to donate a 700xx for about a month or so ... located in Pennsylvania close to New Jersey.

I spoke some with the owner about the anti-roll bars ..and says once you use them you will never turn back ..and the 700xx will NO LONGER PUSH in slow corners ..and you DO NOT lose anything in the suspension ..only some of the sloppiness.

anyway ..thats what they say ... and im debating on donating my quad for a month so he can create some rear a-arms ... curious to know if anyone is interested in purchasing a set.... seems he will make 6 sets to begin with.

Not too bad of a price if it helps with the handling. I might be interested in buying a set of them.

OK.....so I'm gunna weigh in to the whole pushing/swaybar debate.......

Pushing.....Understeer, is a result of one of two things, either too much traction in the rear or not enough traction in the front. With the 700XX I think the rear traction is overpowering the front. Honda know this and I suspect that is why the stock rear tires are narrower than the norm; to reduce rear traction.

I would expect a front swaybar would help with understeer but I also think this would adversely effect the front suspension in off road conditions. Probably great on a TT track as you are on a relatively smooth surface and you dont use all of the front ends suspension travel.

SRA quads are best off road without a front swaybar.......this is standard with most (all) off road racing vehicles; buggies, Trophy Truck etc:.....

We all know a wider front end gives all sorts of advantages including more traction in the front. Thing is, we usually make the back wider also. This is just made worse by using aftermarket tires that are wider and better than stock giving more traction in the rear.

In short, make the front end wider; more traction in the front. Make the rear end wider; more traction in the rear and that brings us back to the same problem of understeer again.

So what is the answer? As stated the issue is too much traction in the rear or not enough in the front. Front end turn-in traction can be greatly effected by castor. Castor is the angle of the steering pivot........the angle between the upper and lower ball joints on the front end of your quad.

If you could adjust castor and tip the front end forward a bit (top ball joint) this would result in greater traction in the first part of turning in to a corner. You can do this with alot of LT aftermarket front ends. Greater turn-in traction will result in the back end sliding a little easier during first part of a corner......power will keep it sliding.

At the same time I would not be surpprised if running a wider front end without spacers in the rear had the effect of increasing front end traction without effecting the rear......."trailin me" could test this for us he would just have to swap his trick rear OMF's back to stock or run no spacers and report results.

I think wider rear a-arms will make understeer worse (the suspension would be awesome) without doing something to greatly increase traction in the front.

Linc

well ... december 7th a bunch of my friends and I are going to St. Joe state park in Missouri ... otherwise known as flat river... ill try out both scenarios ...

i may go ahead and purchase a set of anti-roll bars for the front to see for myself. He says the things are hilited in next months quad magazine (or some other atv magazine).

Just my $.02.

You have to unload the inside rear tire. The only way to do that is stiffer rear sway bar like (scuzz said). With an SRA quad when you turn, weight is transferred to the out side front wheel. The weight is forced to transfer that way because of the SRA. You can really see it in supermoto on the steet. Every time those guys turn the inside rear wheel is always about 6" off the pavement. You can plainly see in all of the video ever taken of the XX that the inside "front" wheel of the XX is the wheel that leaves the ground in turns......not the inside rear. This means the weight is being transferred the the outside rear with little or no additional weight on the one steer tire still on the ground and little or no unloading of the inside rear tire. Even if not turning hard enough to lift any wheel completely of the ground there is still loading and unloading to some degree of these tires.


Like scuzz I'm no expert but this makes the most sense to me.

Awe thanks Gus!

So! Results gentlemen??

I think they're in the "you can try before you buy phase"

ive been tossing the idea around still. To be honest ... im kinda feeling my neighbors (and competitors) ... fellow riders pain with the bad bad economy.

Im fortunate enough not to be effected by it, but not everyone is so lucky. I have a hard time upgrading equipment at a cost that is more than what some folks i know are spending on something as essential and basic as a car....

these are rough times ... and the money i had set aside for my "project atv" has been partially spent on friends xmas's ... neighbors house notes... and donations to the local food pantry... of course all anonymously because i would never intrude on a family's pride.

My name is Jonathan and I race Pro ATV in the Desert out of Phoenix, AZ. I have been working with Andy over at Sonic Development for a few months now. I have had some time on my 700XX with the sway bar and without. I was ver skeptical on the performance of this new race bike for me. I built it and spent quite of time getting it to perform well in the desert. After putting the Sonic Sway Bar on my 700XX it changed it so much for the better. I went out riding with a friend of mine the other day. He was on his FULL race TRX450 and he said that he was unable to out corner, out MPH, or anything. He said everytime I took off I "checked out, you were just gone" he said " I can't believe how fast that thing is"! He did express his concern that I would not like the bike right after I bought it but now he is thinking of building one. He better if he expects to keep up! hehe
Take some time and call Andy if you do not have this sway bar yet. It makes the bike a ton of fun to ride. I am also putting his rear A-Arms on within the next few weeks and will let everyone know what I think of em'. This product is absolutely INCREDIBLE! Thank you Andy for putting out such an AWESOME sway bar and making that quad absolutely a BLAST to ride.
I will be posting picture of the quad as soon as the rear A-Arms are installed. I can't wait!

Thanks Jonathan, its good to hear some more input on the Sonic sway bars. How about the front tires pushing at low speeds before and after swaybars? When you get the swing arms, fill us in on all the details. We really appreciate everything Andy is doing to better this machine. I hope to get the sway bars for mine this summer!

Thanks Jonathan, its good to hear some more input on the Sonic sway bars. How about the front tires pushing at low speeds before and after swaybars? When you get the swing arms, fill us in on all the details. We really appreciate everything Andy is doing to better this machine. I hope to get the sway bars for mine this summer!

The front end pushing is all but gone. It turns REAL nice now and still handles the whoops and rocks great.

Do you have both front and rear sets, or just the rear?

Do you have both front and rear sets, or just the rear?

I just have the rear one. The front one is my next months project.

Just ordered my rear sway this week :rock:

If you had to choose between the sway bar or a steering stabilizer, which one would you buy? I ride on rocky, rutted trails, and your hands and arms/shoulders take a beating.

If you had to choose between the sway bar or a steering stabilizer, which one would you buy? I ride on rocky, rutted trails, and your hands and arms/shoulders take a beating.


Im thinking a Streering Stabilizer is what your needing...the sway is going to help with rotating on turns.

^^^^^

Agreed.

We're talking two completely different things here. I was just saying if you could buy just one of the two, which one would you pick?

steering stabilizer.

well i got the Sway first....Arm pump is annoying, but managable on the trail.

steering stabilizer

What's funny is how in some other thread or a few pages back how I thought it wasn't necessary. Well after my last ride I had a really good time going through the woops at the top of 3rd and 4th. While it's a blast, after the 8th and 9th pass my arms felt like jello balloons.

On a side note I would come from one trail that intersected with another wide open and sideways in 2nd as I hit the 1st woop at a 30 degree angle.

Man, I LOVE IRS.

The thing I found about steering stabilisers is that you dont really feel it when you first put it on. Your all rested and full of beans and just want to go for a ride. After a few hours you still feel good when you normally would be exhausted. You find yourself riding faster over rougher terrain and it makes riding so more pleasureable. But still you don't really feel the stabiliser - you just feel better than normal.

If you then ride a quad without a stabiliser or take yours back off you wonder how you ever lived without it. They really make that much of a difference.

Linc

Who's making a stablizer for the xx?

Precision Racing. They don't list the XX on their site, but they are making them. I emailed them to confirm it.

http://www.precision-rp.com/

Did you get a price too? $$$$$$$$$

W.O.W.

$485.00 plus shipping. I think that is right on par with any other model. Elka is making them as well. You can get a good pair of Works shocks for just a little more. The G-Series are $555.00 for the front set. That is pre-load adjustable only with no rezzies.

For $485 my wife will have little sympathy for me..

:(

For $485 my wife will have little sympathy for me..

:(

I share your pain too.:cry:

I think that I'd go with front shocks instead. So now it's a question of sway bar, stabilizer, or shocks! Of course, you could buy a sway bar AND a stabilizer for what some shocks would cost you!

well i just ordered front and rear sway bars from sonic , i hope this solves the problem, i just bought my 700xx last week and can not stand the push...............does anybody else have front and rear installed?

I know of only a couple guys that have the rear, not sure about the front. look into a set of tires for the front, that seems to make a big difference as well from all those that have done it.

Ordering my front setup this week. The rear swaybar is awesome, so the front should be the last mod to do......yeah right!!!!!!!!!

I just got both front and rear sonic bars delivered yesterday, going to wait to put on tho, i put on new rear wheels today ,itp holeshot HD 20x11-10,(4+3) wheels, fronts will be here in couple days(back order) 22x7-10 (2+3) wheels,want to see how quad runs with new tires , then put on sway bars .Want to make step by step evaluation ............what a sick stance she has now on rear,(almost 50 inches wide now) will post pics when fronts come in...........

I just got both front and rear sonic bars delivered yesterday, going to wait to put on tho, i put on new rear wheels today ,itp holeshot HD 20x11-10,(4+3) wheels, fronts will be here in couple days(back order) 22x7-10 (2+3) wheels,want to see how quad runs with new tires , then put on sway bars .Want to make step by step evaluation ............what a sick stance she has now on rear,(almost 50 inches wide now) will post pics when fronts come in...........

20" tires/10" rim with that offset on the rear? Wow, I wouldn't even think that you could get them bolted up without hitting the rear a-arm against the inside of the wheel. Why are you going down to a 20? I bet it looks pretty sick with that width. What are you gonna do about your gearing?

The front end pushing is all but gone. It turns REAL nice now and still handles the whoops and rocks great.

How does the rear sway bar affect the suspension travel, especially in the rough stuff? I like the idea of the sway bar, but don't want to lose any of the benefits that the IRS has given me.

I would like to see a measurement of suspension travel before and after the sway bar install. I'm specifically speaking to travel for each a-arm and the amount of weight (force) needed to make that movement.

I'm not interested in making an 500 lb. semi-sra.

Aren't the pros like Matlock running the stock swaybar? If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. The handling on mine improved ten-fold with a simple switch to Razrs.

We do run the stock sway bar are biggest benefit came from our Houser arms and Elka shocks the stock sway bar works real good for what we do

Yea i jumped to quick on buyin the sway bars(i wanted a quick fix to quad) , and after researchin more , i decided to try tires first and see if this solves the pushin prob.(also im havin 2nd thoughts of buyin long travel fronts and suspension ) id rather have that then the sway bars,but it s big money for the set up.Andrew form sonic assures me i will love the sway bars and wont lose any travel in suspension , we will see by trial tho.as for the 20 inch size it lowers the center of gravity of quad and should make it handle much better,more like a race quad....they fit perfect too ...itp made a special offset in 10inch (4+3) just for the 700xx

I would like to see a measurement of suspension travel before and after the sway bar install. I'm specifically speaking to travel for each a-arm and the amount of weight (force) needed to make that movement.

I'm not interested in making an 500 lb. semi-sra.

Im going to actually ck the travel tomorrow, im going to lift one tire till the other lifts to ck travel. prob use a jack or car ramp with my 230 pound a$$ on it.

But just the short test i had with my new sonic rear sway is that it makes the Quad (with Razrs installed) more towards the oversteer side. Proper throttle control and body position im sure i can keep the quad neutral. But it didnt tighten up the rear to SRA levels.

We do run the stock sway bar are biggest benefit came from our Houser arms and Elka shocks the stock sway bar works real good for what we do

Wayne,

You would be surprised how much a properly sized anti roll bar can do for your ATV. With all due respect your an amazing racer and you have proven your self many times over. Your a good enough racer to make up for the downfall of the lack in stability and turning of the XX, but how much faster could you be if your machine did even more of that work for you? For a race ready ATV quality after market shocks are a must and a good set of front a-arms will help your high speed stability. All serious racers in the past have done this for years but now you have IRS and with more parts and higher technology IRS needs a correctly balanced anti roll setup.

Elka, Custom axis, Fox will all tell you that they can fix your roll stability but at the expense of a stiff spring rates that beats you up and your weight distribution upon the tires is the same as before. This means you get little to no real cornering advantage. With an anti roll bar you can keep your spring rates low and let the torsion bar transfer weight to the correct location to achieve much higher cornering speeds and strait line stability. Correct distribution of weight to your tires is the true reason for an anti roll bar. As a byproduct of the correct weight distribution the anti roll bar also limits the body roll of the vehicle. Redistribution of weight gives traction to the correct tire to achieve smooth, effortless, balanced cornering. Any F1 race engineer will agree with this statement.

It is important to rely on your shock manufacturer for all your handling needs because they are the ones that make your ATV handle. Not your A-arm manufacturers. The problem they currently face is that they are trying to make your IRS ATV turn and have little experience with IRS. Lets face it, IRS has only recently been introduced to the race side of the ATV market. If they had experience with IRS in a real race circuit they would tell you that cornering ability comes from your anti roll system.

(to all)

If you haven't tried an after market anti roll setup so you have nothing to compare the stock one to. Our patent pending Anti roll system is currently the only way to get the stiffness and durability needed in the rear of the xx. I have been designing anti roll systems for the past few years for our IRS retrofit kit. It is a difficult task because we have so much wheel travel and a very large track width to center of gravity ratio. A standard bar that lies perpendicular to the vehicle like the Durablue or Rath design can't be utilized in the rear without it breaking due to the bar length and torsion bar twist angles. I have tried mini hydraulic pistons that worked well but where very expensive and didn't do well in the dirt and sand. Then I came up with this design that answered all my problems and just so happens to work great on the XX as well.

We Don't create a solid rear axle conversion kit. This would literally require a anti roll bar much thicker then a standard solid rear axle, huge linkages, a-arms that are extremely strong and can withstand thousands of pounds of pulling and pushing forces by the anti roll system... its just not possible. But, we do create a anti roll system that transfers the correct amount of weight to the correct tire to give you high speed and low speed cornering with your smooth riding IRS ATV.

I hope my long winded explanation helps. Their is a lot for all of us to learn in this new developing field of IRS ATV racing and I think its exciting.

You guys should see if Wayne wants another sponsor.

well i think people see the size of the bar and think its going to be stiff because its thicker then stock....

But its also longer....so its more area to flex. Also if you wanted a solution that where you can run custom rates then this bar will work for you..replacing the bar is a easy task once installed. so you can talor your roll control for a race.

well i think people see the size of the bar and think its going to be stiff because its thicker then stock....

But its also longer....so its more area to flex. Also if you wanted a solution that where you can run custom rates then this bar will work for you..replacing the bar is a easy task once installed. so you can talor your roll control for a race.

You are exactly correct. It is thicker then stock but the length that actually twists is much longer then stock so it can take more abuse and the longer the bar the easier it is to twist for a given cross section. The problem is our track width to CG height is so bad that a bar much stiffer then stock is needed.

We are offering a bar swap program which I expressed to those of you who called in. If your bar needs to be a little softer or a little stiffer depending on your riding style or riding type we will swap bars you just pay the shipping.

Andy,

Some of us need a little help with getting our XX to handle better. Wayne Matlock is doing great with just his stock sway bar! We would NOT want him to know that its the single BEST thing I have changed on my FULL race XX now would we? The Sonic Sway Bar would only help him go faster and I think that it is AWESOME of him to be willing to NOT run it considering he would only be able to go faster. Thank you Wayne, you are a true gentleman! LOL just kidding about the smart A stuff.

Wayne,

This is an incredible product that you should take a look at. I have it on a bike that will be competing soon.......

heydesert289 do you have front and rear bars, i bought both but have not put them on yet , waitin to try new tires out first ,and how about front shocks, the stocks are like pogo sticks...........do the bars take away any of your suspension threw big off camber whoops?

heydesert289 do you have front and rear bars, i bought both but have not put them on yet , waitin to try new tires out first ,and how about front shocks, the stocks are like pogo sticks...........do the bars take away any of your suspension threw big off camber whoops?

The sway bars are stiff enough to properly transfer weight to your tires and limit body roll while turning but the forces of a huge bump are enough to just twist the bar and you feel little difference. The anti roll bar does add a slight amount of spring rate in one wheel bump so it is a good idea to run slower rebound in your shocks if your racing. If your running after market shocks you will be able to reduce your spring rates all around and have a super plush ride yet the anti roll bar will keep your ATV stable and it will track very nicely in the corners.

Get the sway bars on there! lets get some more feedback.

as of now i have the stock shocks, they suck , they have no adjustments ex preload which does nothin for me , the fronts just spring up and down like a pogo stick , will the sway bar fix some of the shock prob and yea plan on gettin whole new housers and long travel elka s but dont want to spend big money on sway and shocks ,esp if a new front would fix prob...........

^^^^^^

That's my thoughts. Aftermarket shocks and front a-arms 1st for me. (if I do go down that road, for right now it handles fine for my trail riding abilities.)

I don't doubt that your sway bars work well in certain riding conditions. But we have got are quad to turn real well by making it 48'' wide and the right amount of caster along with shocks. And for me I need the quad's suspension to move as freely as possible when you are hitting 6 to 8 inch rocks and 1 to 2 foot deep whoops at 70 to 80 MPH stuff needs to happen real fast and very Little resistance. But for some I am sure your set up works good, just like I am sure my Set up would not work for some.

I just got an update from a customer that raced his first cross country race with the the front and rear anti roll bar system on his 700xx. His best previous place with his ATV having already purchased elka shocks front and rear was 15th. Last weekend with both the front and rear bar he placed 3rd and was ecstatic about the handling. He says it handled 100% better.

He was especially happy with the front bar. He said that his front felt so stable and didn't dive at all. He thinks we should be going after the strait axle front ends because they run extremely soft suspension in the front and have a big problem with dive over their front outside corner.

I just got an update from a customer that raced his first cross country race with the the front and rear anti roll bar system on his 700xx. His best previous place with his ATV having already purchased elka shocks front and rear was 15th. Last weekend with both the front and rear bar he placed 3rd and was ecstatic about the handling. He says it handled 100% better.

He was especially happy with the front bar. He said that his front felt so stable and didn't dive at all. He thinks we should be going after the strait axle front ends because they run extremely soft suspension in the front and have a big problem with dive over their front outside corner.

Thats just what I wanted to hear. My order will be going in real soon for the front setup. I am real happy with the rear swaybar setup.

The Sway Bars are INCREDIBLE! Waste NO more time on the quad until you get em on their.

heydesert289 do you have front and rear bars, i bought both but have not put them on yet , waitin to try new tires out first ,and how about front shocks, the stocks are like pogo sticks...........do the bars take away any of your suspension threw big off camber whoops?

Is there still a loaner set going around to test them out?

The Sway Bars are INCREDIBLE! Waste NO more time on the quad until you get em on their.

Thank you for your support!

Is there still a loaner set going around to test them out?

I sent out a set 3 months ago to trailin'me. He was to test them and if he liked them he was to buy them. If he did not like them he was to send them back so I could send them out to someone else. Unfortunately I have learned an important lesson that not all people are can be trusted because I have tried several times to contact him with no response and he no longer posts on this site. I am under the impression that he is having family problems but I'm out $960.00 of hard work at this point.

Andrew,

Sorry to hear about that. Let me know if there's anything that I can help with.

yea sorry andrew, if i cant get my a$$ in garage this week haha,i will putting mine on, so i can give some feedback on the front and rear swaybars

Bump. Andrew, You should be getting someone from exriders.com that I'm referring over. He's an XC racer.

I know that this post is 8 months after the fact, but I didn't want to start a new thread. I was wondering about the sway bars. I see on the site that is says under the installation section of this Sonic bars that you should grease them every 4-5 rides. 1. What are they constituting as a ride?, 2. How long does it take? and 3. Is it easy to do? I love doing maintenance on my stuff, I just dont think i would like the fact of having to do it every few rides. I mean if it is a simlpe hex nut to take out and slide the bar out to grease it, I am more than okay with that.

Excellent product so far. Does what it is supposed to very well. IRS still works great, much much less push, and alot better sliding.

Not to be competitive....

Here is a picture of a home made sway bar 3/4" 1018 using the stock bends and dimensions. It dramatically improves the ride quality of the XX. I am currently looking at a manufacturer to have these made at mass. I attached a picture of the one I currently have on the bike. I am also working on an "electronic disconnect" that will give the rider the option to have a stiff sway bar and no sway bar for really rough country... pictures to come. Ohh and for grins a plate mount that I fabbed up will be made in AL...

I tried to adapt the one off of my Rincon, close but wouldn't fit without hitting the shocks. It is actually about the same diameter as the one you made. I was going to try and fab one, but couldn't find any cheap(free) spring steel. Just decided to go ahead and get the Sonic. Amazing difference, I love it!

Kyle I would love to hear your prices once you get these things going. The sonics are just out of my range

Kyle I would love to hear your prices once you get these things going. The sonics are just out of my range

The jury is still out... the shop I am getting quotes for is currently in the process of moving. He promised me something by the end of the day. From the little talk I have had its looking like and OEM type replacement bar (much stiffer does not adversely affect ride comfort) will be under $200.00 As soon as I get the prototype back I will start a thread to announce its results and any trial offers...

Thanks for your interest


Kyle

ill try one and get some good feedback for it from some of my ferinds and me...

As will I and for that price I would buy them as well if they worked

As will I and for that price I would buy them as well if they worked

2nd

Kyle, if you get one in the next 2 weeks, I can test it at Hatfield for a whole week! Hint hint hint....:D

Has anyone tried the Dura Blue anti-roll bar. It is almost 100 less than the Sonic and you can adjust it.
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?&allVehParts=true&navType=type&webTypeId=129&navTitle=Suspension&webCatId=13&prodFamilyId=1079#vehicleSelect

THIS IS A VERY INTERESTING POST.....

MY QUESTION IS.......

WHY A COMPANY LIKE "MOTHER HONDA"....WOULD NOT HAVE ALL THIS BEHIND THE CONSUMER.....???

LOOKS LIKE TO ME THAT THE FINISHED PRODUCT FROM HONDA WOULD HAVE ALL THE FEATURES AND CHARACTERISTICS LIKE THE CURRENT THREAD ADDRESSES...BEHIND THEM.....:confused::confused::confused:

BECAUSE IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THIS NEW SWAY BAR IS BENEFICIAL AND TAKES NOTHING AWAY FROM THE QUAD....???

Cost > Benefit

bingo

Hard to design a quad for the masses. That is why aftermarket companies stay in business.

Hard to design a quad for the masses. That is why aftermarket companies stay in business.

So true

Has anyone tried the Dura Blue anti-roll bar. It is almost 100 less than the Sonic and you can adjust it.
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?&allVehParts=true&navType=type&webTypeId=129&navTitle=Suspension&webCatId=13&prodFamilyId=1079#vehicleSelect

I'm curious about this as well. anybody tried this yet?

I would ask Durablue. This for the front, I think.:D