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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok here's my situation. Hope you guys can help me make a better educated decision. I have a stage 3 hot cam. Got it really cheap from my dealer. Been reading alot of threads about how to get more power on the cheap. I was thinking about just dropping this cam in and getting a map from EHS for my bullit box(dobeck) programmer. Eric has tested the cam with a big 3 bike and gained 5 hp up top. Now i'm not sure how this will affect the bottom end of the power curve though? I want a even power curve. Much like it is with the big 3 but pull harder.I would have no problem dropping in a 11:1.1 CP piston, but thats gonna cost me quite a bit more money. My question is... do i really need the piston? Will it be worth all the extra money by just going from 10:1.1 to 11:1.1? I have talked to several of the best engine guru's on here and they seem to have different opinion's on the matter. What do you guys think? I got the stage 3 cam for $135 and Eric already has a map for it. So i'm not sure if i should just drop in the cam or wait til i have the money for the piston and maybe some port work? :confused:



Oh and please don't turn this into a hot cam vs. webb cam thread. :thanks:
 

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it depends if your gonna do it all yourself or not too because the labor will add up really fast. you can get the piston kit for 280 with all the new gaskets you need. it gonna give you more power for sure but do u really want to tear it down that far is another question. the cam should give you more through out the entire power curve that you will notice. i spent a long time making some of the same decisions. and it finally came down to the fact that i dont want to be tearing the engine down over and over to add aprts here and there. each tear down means new oil and coolent too$$$$
 

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man, i have a stage 2, 11:1 piston and ehs programmer with erichs reccommended settings and i am totally happy with my build, im not sure which one gave me the power but i would go with the piston to utilize the extra fuel you are dumping in with the cam.

you also come out cheaper buying the gaskets from an online honda parts dealer like motogrid and buying the basic ring and piston kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah i can probably do the cam myself. The thing is... If i add the piston i will probably hafta take the bike to Eric for tuning. Cause he doesn't have a map for the cam and piston. He just has the cam or the cam, piston and port work. I don't really wanna tear it down. I don't need alot more power. Just thought this would be a cheap way to gain a few extra ponies. $135 for 5hp just got me to thinking.
 

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theres a lot more to think about too the more power you go ur gonna need a better clutch and like you said tuning possible stronger chain etc. with just the cam you will be fine running the stock stuff. not sure if it will be quite 5hp but but to me the numbers dont matter just as long as its got more power.
 

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Put the cam in now and wait till your rings are wore out for the new piston (or 727 kit). Keep that factory seal as long as you can!
 

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u can get the cp11:1 piston and gasket kit on ebay for $225 from alba racing. ebc clutch for about $100 on ebay. I still havnt had a chance to really ride mine since i added these mods, so I dont really have any feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I was planning on adjusting my valves this weekend. Then i read about how Eric had dynoed a stage three hot cam on a big three XX and it made around 5 more hp. So i called to see how much the cam was gonna be and this is what got me to thinking about doing it. Here's the dyno sheet. Top is ehs big three with stage 3 hot cam, under that is just the ehs big 3.
 

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Looks like you do loose a bit down low but may be unoticable. Since you have the cam i'd just put it in for now. Ride it for a while and if your not satisfied with the power down low then do the 11:1 piston later.
 

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That doesnt seem right either though. I thought the big 3 added more than 3hp in the first place and they even said unless you go with something bigger than any of the hotcams the port and polish didnt really make that big of a difference. With the tune if you took his map for cam,pistion,and port then knocked the settings down .5 each you should be good. I did that and it ran great before I switched to the PCV and auto tune just cause I got a great deal for it. Dont let the idea of tuning hold you back. The cam is easy to do by itself, but IMO taking all the other crap off to get to that point is the bigger pain
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Looks like you do loose a bit down low but may be unoticable. Since you have the cam i'd just put it in for now. Ride it for a while and if your not satisfied with the power down low then do the 11:1 piston later.
From what Eric say's. I looks like it's lost bottom end but thats just because it is difficult to start the run at the exact same % of throttle. Thats why there's some variation at the beginning of the run.
I might just do that! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
That doesnt seem right either though. I thought the big 3 added more than 3hp in the first place and they even said unless you go with something bigger than any of the hotcams the port and polish didnt really make that big of a difference. With the tune if you took his map for cam,pistion,and port then knocked the settings down .5 each you should be good. I did that and it ran great before I switched to the PCV and auto tune just cause I got a great deal for it. Dont let the idea of tuning hold you back. The cam is easy to do by itself, but IMO taking all the other crap off to get to that point is the bigger pain
The bottom run is with a slip-on exhaust and no efi. I'm not really looking for alot of power like some of the other guys on here. I just figured since i was gonna have it apart doing a valve job. I would go ahead and throw the cam in and use Eric's map for my Dobeck and get an easy 3-5hp. Then of course i had some other people tell me not to do the cam without the piston. So i'm like damn idk what to do now! I am the most indecisive person in the world anyways :lol: So that didn't help.
 

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if you're going in there, might as well do the piston. i know i'll be waiting until I can gather all the parts first, and then do it all at once... i guarantee you that if you put the cam in, you'll want the piston later
 

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a piston will help slightly with this cam but not that much imo if you have a fresh piston you might as well run it stock if you need to replace it then for sure change it to better. But swapping the piston compared to just a cam turns it from $175 parts and maybe $125 for a shop to install it compared to a $475 parts and $200 Labor bill. And you will only gain maybe 1 extra hp going from stock to 11.5-1 basically for $175 you can pick up 3-5 hp. If you want a piston put it in but for $$ to hp gains a cam is much more economical.

If you go from stock to 14.1 you will see more difference 11.5 is still fairly low comp to run 14.1+ you need good fuel

this hot cam will not lose much bottom end it is a higher center line cam which is making more upper rpm power but with the added lift and quicker ramps its making power quicker. If your lugging the motor a lot at 3k rpm you may see a slight difference there compared to stock but once it hits 4500rpm its a big difference on the good side.

I would just assume everybody wait and buy the cam im working on but its going to be much more $$ and require more parts granted it will make much more power. I did this testing and put this info up so guys that didnt have a big budget could get something better than stock and tuned in correctly with our setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Eric! The stuff your working on may be more than I need. This cam just seemed like a cheap 3-5hp. So I might just go with the cam for now cause my bike has less than 50 hrs on it.
 

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i just have to put this.. to pull the top end of this quad is very easy compared to most 450's.. u can do the swap in a hr.. hardest part ill be putting the new cam in
 

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it does come apart really easy just take your time dont make any stupid little mistakes like droping a bolt or the cam chain down in the case. waiting on my porting is what took the longest.lol
 
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