confused.
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223 Posts
Yep, I dont know what else you have (need to fill out your signature) but this has been gone over many times before. Get one (preferably a PCIII or a Dobeck style and your Honda should live a long life. Without one, and adding any other mods and you will be very unhappy in short order. Just my opinion.
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574 Posts
A lot of people on here seem to like the Power Commander, myself included.
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984 Posts
PC5 $282.00 at more power racing
http://www.morepoweracing.com/uargr...XX/2009/c-1-70-29851-17218-26815-31569-40029/
http://www.morepoweracing.com/uargr...XX/2009/c-1-70-29851-17218-26815-31569-40029/
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6,388 Posts
I'm sure the EHS one heck of a fine programmer, but I'm partial to programmers that allow for more fine tuning that the limited amounts of "tuning" that a Dobek (all programmers that are not DynoJet.)
Also, the reason I mentioned a used PCIII was because of your price range.
Also, the reason I mentioned a used PCIII was because of your price range.
Ive wrote several threads on different forums about the differences between the dobeck style controllers and the pc3. I will add some here now that we are sponsoring this forum also.
The PC3 is a very good piece of equipment and is a little more capable of a tuner than the dobeck style controllers. But this is only when its put in the hands of someone that knows how to take advantage of the capabilites. If you dont have at the bare minimum some type of wideband (LM1 or other 02 Sensor) and a way to log it, its extremely difficult to setup properly. Realisticly imo you really need to go to a dyno to get it setup with someone that actually knows what they are doing and not all dyno operators do i promise. The guys that just go and throw a generic map that somebody else designed for a different bike then say its tuned are guessing at best and in most cases not close to what it actually should be to have max performance achieved. Thats not saying it wont run ok are even pretty good with a generic map but to what the controller is cabable of not at all.
Generally i will find that on a 40-50 hp quad that we have designed a controller for if we compare what our controller will do to a pc3 is almost always within 1 hp all across the rpm/reading board. That is for a something that has went through almost always at LEAST a 1 hour dyno session modifying a generic map or (one that was designed for that exact setup). Also our controller almost always like 99.9% always puts out more power and better response than the same setup without the dyno session.
The main differences as far as how the operate is that the PC3 you get a grid which consist of almost every rpm and throttle position, each one of those gives you a value to change the percantage of fuel deliverd compared to the stock signal at each point. So if you think you have a flat spot at 6500rpm at 80% throttle you can add fuel there. But you have to setup everyone of those values from 0%-100% throttle and 1000rpm-9000rpm thats why most people start with a generic map. Because you can hinder performance a lot if just a few of those values are off.
With our controller you are basically working with a base map that we have designed for a certain application. It works off basically the same way a PC3 except we do not pull a TPS signal. It uses load base % which basically boils down to rpm/pulse width math. There are a range of adjustments, 3 that handle fuel quantity and 3 that handle delivery timing. It breaks it down into three mode cruise, accell, and main. These are not a rpm specific like some other controllers it just doesnt change modes at a giving rpm it factors the load % in which act similar to having a TPS adjustment. So you can adjust the amount of fuel delivered in each mode and you can also adjust when each one of those modes comes into play. We setup the controllers with enough flexibilty so the can handle upgrades like a slightly bigger bore, more compression, and a different cams. But they have to work off the base map that we design so if the build is going more extreme it would require us to use a different base map (Which we can take care of very easily most of the time).
There is usually confusion out there that all the controllers that are of the dobeck style, or gen 3, or what every body calls them. Work the same and are the same thing with a different sticker on it. I assure you that is so far from the truth every company is supposed to set up the controller to there specs or range of operation. There are some pretty big names in the ATV industry that use these controllers and the way the set them up is mediocre at best and usually relates back to a lot of people saying they are garbage or just wont work. We have quite a few that come through our shop from "those guys" that we can only make them work ok or fair. Each controller we design goes through a lot of testing on the dyno and in real world situations before we actually release it or put our name on it. We design the base maps specifically for each model and they are all quite different for the most part. Otherwise we would have a controller for every fuel injected application out there.
so i guess to some up my rant if you have access to a dyno or are changing your build all the time and dont mind paying for dyno time. You would probably be better off with a pc3. If you are looking for something for a basic 3 mod bike i will put our controller up against anything else out there. If you are going above that i will still put it against anything else but you might be able to squeak a extra hp in some places with a pc3 and a dyno. What we design these for they work extremely well.
Ours retail for $210
PC3 from an internet whore is $285-ish retail is $345 and a dyno tune starts at $150
I will back ours up with a satisfaction guarantee no questions asked return
The PC3 is a very good piece of equipment and is a little more capable of a tuner than the dobeck style controllers. But this is only when its put in the hands of someone that knows how to take advantage of the capabilites. If you dont have at the bare minimum some type of wideband (LM1 or other 02 Sensor) and a way to log it, its extremely difficult to setup properly. Realisticly imo you really need to go to a dyno to get it setup with someone that actually knows what they are doing and not all dyno operators do i promise. The guys that just go and throw a generic map that somebody else designed for a different bike then say its tuned are guessing at best and in most cases not close to what it actually should be to have max performance achieved. Thats not saying it wont run ok are even pretty good with a generic map but to what the controller is cabable of not at all.
Generally i will find that on a 40-50 hp quad that we have designed a controller for if we compare what our controller will do to a pc3 is almost always within 1 hp all across the rpm/reading board. That is for a something that has went through almost always at LEAST a 1 hour dyno session modifying a generic map or (one that was designed for that exact setup). Also our controller almost always like 99.9% always puts out more power and better response than the same setup without the dyno session.
The main differences as far as how the operate is that the PC3 you get a grid which consist of almost every rpm and throttle position, each one of those gives you a value to change the percantage of fuel deliverd compared to the stock signal at each point. So if you think you have a flat spot at 6500rpm at 80% throttle you can add fuel there. But you have to setup everyone of those values from 0%-100% throttle and 1000rpm-9000rpm thats why most people start with a generic map. Because you can hinder performance a lot if just a few of those values are off.
With our controller you are basically working with a base map that we have designed for a certain application. It works off basically the same way a PC3 except we do not pull a TPS signal. It uses load base % which basically boils down to rpm/pulse width math. There are a range of adjustments, 3 that handle fuel quantity and 3 that handle delivery timing. It breaks it down into three mode cruise, accell, and main. These are not a rpm specific like some other controllers it just doesnt change modes at a giving rpm it factors the load % in which act similar to having a TPS adjustment. So you can adjust the amount of fuel delivered in each mode and you can also adjust when each one of those modes comes into play. We setup the controllers with enough flexibilty so the can handle upgrades like a slightly bigger bore, more compression, and a different cams. But they have to work off the base map that we design so if the build is going more extreme it would require us to use a different base map (Which we can take care of very easily most of the time).
There is usually confusion out there that all the controllers that are of the dobeck style, or gen 3, or what every body calls them. Work the same and are the same thing with a different sticker on it. I assure you that is so far from the truth every company is supposed to set up the controller to there specs or range of operation. There are some pretty big names in the ATV industry that use these controllers and the way the set them up is mediocre at best and usually relates back to a lot of people saying they are garbage or just wont work. We have quite a few that come through our shop from "those guys" that we can only make them work ok or fair. Each controller we design goes through a lot of testing on the dyno and in real world situations before we actually release it or put our name on it. We design the base maps specifically for each model and they are all quite different for the most part. Otherwise we would have a controller for every fuel injected application out there.
so i guess to some up my rant if you have access to a dyno or are changing your build all the time and dont mind paying for dyno time. You would probably be better off with a pc3. If you are looking for something for a basic 3 mod bike i will put our controller up against anything else out there. If you are going above that i will still put it against anything else but you might be able to squeak a extra hp in some places with a pc3 and a dyno. What we design these for they work extremely well.
Ours retail for $210
PC3 from an internet whore is $285-ish retail is $345 and a dyno tune starts at $150
I will back ours up with a satisfaction guarantee no questions asked return
Joined
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2,932 Posts
The PC3 is a very good piece of equipment and is a little more capable of a tuner than the dobeck style controllers. But this is only when its put in the hands of someone that knows how to take advantage of the capabilites. If you dont have at the bare minimum some type of wideband (LM1 or other 02 Sensor) and a way to log it, its extremely difficult to setup properly. Realisticly imo you really need to go to a dyno to get it setup with someone that actually knows what they are doing and not all dyno operators do i promise. The guys that just go and throw a generic map that somebody else designed for a different bike then say its tuned are guessing at best and in most cases not close to what it actually should be to have max performance achieved. Thats not saying it wont run ok are even pretty good with a generic map but to what the controller is cabable of not at all.
I couldn't agree more
Also as you mentioned and the reason I recommended the EHS and Alba unit is it's known you have actually but time into building these maps. For a big 3 bike these dobek units are great, Although I would always recommend a PC if money permits. As of yet I'm not sure if anyone has dyno'd a PCIII map but there are PCV dyno maps available.
I couldn't agree more
Also as you mentioned and the reason I recommended the EHS and Alba unit is it's known you have actually but time into building these maps. For a big 3 bike these dobek units are great, Although I would always recommend a PC if money permits. As of yet I'm not sure if anyone has dyno'd a PCIII map but there are PCV dyno maps available.
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667 Posts
Guys I can assure you Eric (EHS) knows what he is talking about, I sent my bike to him, he still has it, with a Big Gun set up. It ran well, I am in no way trashing the Big Gun set up, but Eric dyno tested the set up, then plugged his controller in and wow the differance was amazing. I will, with Eric's permission post the dyno sheets showing just that. He is doing alot more work and I will post on this later that will take a fast bike and turn it into a fire breathing monster. Stay posted for the future dyno sheets. Eric was very professional in the fact that he didn't trash talk anyone else, I am the one who brought up Big Gun. Again there is nothing wrong with the Big Gun setup, if you are wanted bolt on power, it will work for you. If you want BIG power and amazing support call Eric, he answers the phone and will help you when you need it. His controller will work with what you have and he will set it up to be compatable with what you want to do.
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207 Posts
Ok, just installed the HMF, wow... it sounds awesome... I am really afraid to ride it though because I dont have the EFI on it yet. Will she have any damage if I ride her around a bit? Any replies would be great, I want to ride her after the hearder wrap has cooked off its stuff.
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