DS450 shock swap
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112 Posts
Dagirl: Thanks for the good words, gonna put the Big3/Razrs/ds450 shocks to a beating next weekend!
Pinto: The top mount stayed together, it isnt like a ball and socket, it is a rubber bushing that doesn't come out. I just cut through it with an electric angle grinder and it is still very solid.
Rap 190: The way the top mount is welded and reinforced to the frame, that would not work, the stock shock is .750 wide, the DS is 1.185 thick, there is NO way you would stretch that top mount over 3/8 of an inch. I just used a 4.5 inch electric angle grinder.
It looks really rough in the pictures, but you really dont see much of it, when I go home from college to more of my tools, I will probably try to make them look a little better.
The tricky part of the whole new front shocks deal, is actually knowing what the adjustments will affect and how to tune them to make them do what you want them to. I know it will be a HUGE improvement over stock!! Just for testing fun I took the springs of the factory shock and the DS and cycle them through their full travel, it is INSANE how bad the factory ones are, and how magically smooth the new DS ones are.
Overall I spent about 3 hours in the garage doing it, and I would say it turned out pretty well!!
Jason
Pinto: The top mount stayed together, it isnt like a ball and socket, it is a rubber bushing that doesn't come out. I just cut through it with an electric angle grinder and it is still very solid.
Rap 190: The way the top mount is welded and reinforced to the frame, that would not work, the stock shock is .750 wide, the DS is 1.185 thick, there is NO way you would stretch that top mount over 3/8 of an inch. I just used a 4.5 inch electric angle grinder.
It looks really rough in the pictures, but you really dont see much of it, when I go home from college to more of my tools, I will probably try to make them look a little better.
The tricky part of the whole new front shocks deal, is actually knowing what the adjustments will affect and how to tune them to make them do what you want them to. I know it will be a HUGE improvement over stock!! Just for testing fun I took the springs of the factory shock and the DS and cycle them through their full travel, it is INSANE how bad the factory ones are, and how magically smooth the new DS ones are.
Overall I spent about 3 hours in the garage doing it, and I would say it turned out pretty well!!
Jason
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671 Posts
Looks good. Could also use a bandsaw I would guess to cut them also.
What is the extended eye to eye length of the Can Am shocks vs the stock shocks? In the pics you posted, it looks like the front a-arms are pretty extend just sitting there. Also, what are the shaft travels of the Can Am shocks and stock shocks? Just wondering what the geometry differences are between the two.
Doug
What is the extended eye to eye length of the Can Am shocks vs the stock shocks? In the pics you posted, it looks like the front a-arms are pretty extend just sitting there. Also, what are the shaft travels of the Can Am shocks and stock shocks? Just wondering what the geometry differences are between the two.
Doug
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2,189 Posts
I am wondering the same thing. Did you buy those brand new? And did you only grind on the upper shock to get it to fit? As in no modifying to the frame. I hope you answer these quickly, so I can try it out before my first race in 3 weeks.
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112 Posts
The travel of the shock itself is exactly the same. The length of the two are also exactly the same before disassembly, the problem why it looks so high is that the DS spring is actually a little shorter than the xx spring, and I put the xx spring on the ds shocks. The reason I did this is because I am a bigger guy, so when I am on it, the front sags to about normal with the spring preload backed off all the way with the xx springs. I am gonna end up putting the DS springs back on to give it a try to see what I like better.
I got them off the link I posted on page 3 of this post, I bought the used ones that he said have about 3 hours on them before he changed em out for aftermarket shocks. I believe the guy has 1 set of new DS shocks left for 80 a piece, look him up.
The stock frame has to be ground just a very little bit, it is minor clearance from the backside that has to be made, so the shock doesnt have to get hacked up anymore.
Jason
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112 Posts
This is a pic of the MINIMAL trimming that the top mount on the frame needed to clear the much larger head of the new shock.
The second pic is what I remember was there before I trimmed it, designated by the green lines where the metal was that I ground off.
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The second pic is what I remember was there before I trimmed it, designated by the green lines where the metal was that I ground off.
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355 Posts
FYI. Whenever you cut metal like that you should leave a bit of a radius when you grind/file. Sharp angles are fracture points especially through a weld like that. Try using a dremmel tool and round out that angle. There's a lot of stress in that bracket. Personally I'm not willing to to mess with welded on brackets. If they break it'll cost more than you saved. Sorry to be negative on the thread but all this cutting and shaving and grinding has got to decrease structural integrity. Whether it it decreases enough to cause a failure is anyone's guess but a failure could be very painful. I think I'll just go with Elka stage 1s and have Wiigstyle do the rears. $500 for a set of front shocks does suck though. Maybe some one will find a shock that will work without modding the mount.
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112 Posts
Smoothing everything up is coming, I am out at college, 350 miles from all my real tools. I had the same reservations about cutting up the shock and the top bracket. I will keep a close eye on that bracket for a year, and if I see nothing, I wont worry about, otherwise I will weld up some more bracing to it.
On the note of cutting up the shock, I am absolutely not worried about the strength of that. If you look at the top mount of the factory shock, it is a metal collar sitting on a piece of maybe half inch round bar with a .25 to .375 spot weld on each side. It is very surprising how little there is actually holding the bushing to the top of the shock.
I will definately keep an eye on everything for a shakedown period, and if any problems arise, I have access to a full machine shop and several mechanical engineers to help me with any curveballs this mod could throw.
Jason
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355 Posts
Good thing you can weld. That's a big help. I learned 30 years ago. I just don't do enough these days to have a machine around. Also I worked as a machinist. Anyone wanting to do this should consider milling them down. I was thinking maybe you could mill off the top of the case along with narrowing and shortening the eyelet instead of cutting the XX shock mounts. It depends on how thick it is and how much clearance you need but that may be an alternative. That's what I would do but now that I'm living in Arizona I don't have the friends like I did in Pa who could help me out although there are some guys who I ride with from Luke AFB that might help. Good luck and keep us posted. Great pics BTW. Very helpful when you can actually see something.
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60 Posts
Well done blkcruzer....its amazing how much better these bears ride with some real socks instead of the stock pogosticks...lol
I did alot less moding to the upper mount on the frame and took a little off the inside of the upper shock mount instead. I did all the trimming of the shock on a bad saw and only had to smooth out the bumps on the frame...all in all, pretty much the same procedure.....great job on the pics, i appoligize i havent had time to take pics.....
I did alot less moding to the upper mount on the frame and took a little off the inside of the upper shock mount instead. I did all the trimming of the shock on a bad saw and only had to smooth out the bumps on the frame...all in all, pretty much the same procedure.....great job on the pics, i appoligize i havent had time to take pics.....
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112 Posts
How big of a guy are you, just curious if you used the DS springs or the XX springs. The DS springs just seem SOOOOO soft compared to the XX springs thats why I mounted them up first.
Jason
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60 Posts
I am currently running the DS springs, I like the lower front stance, puts more weight on the front wheels....Im 6ft2, 190lbs, and havent bottomed them yet, but i have the clickers set fairly hard...i think around 15clicks comp and rebound out of 20.....i might cut down the stock springs and see how they are, but havent had time to ride enough to tell.....
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2,189 Posts
Do you jump a lot? Just curious. I just purchased a set of them and suppose to get them friday so I'm hopeful to get them on in the next week or so.
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