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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aright men...I've been an onlooker here for months gathering info and admiring knowledge. Now, I need to speak up and ask for some help.

My Stats:
185lbs, 6'1", 37yo, Between Novice and Expert, Trail rider only, Ex-250 4 stroke

I bought my 2008 700XX March 2010. Only has about 10 rides and 20 hrs on it.
I have 3 "usual spots" I go trail riding. Terrain varies from fast straights w/ mild bumps to narrow technical w/ rocks and ruggedness. 75% of my time is on the latter though.

We all know these 700's are beasts. I knew that when I bought it. What I didn't realize is how much of a bear it would to handle in medium to tight woods. I bought a 2008 400EX at the same time and it magic in the woods. I'm certainly not looking for my 700 to handle like a 400, BUT I am looking to make it more trail friendly.

My 2 issues are:

1) Suspension = Marshmallows
I love the IRS. It's plush and lovely on the straights at high speed, but when the going gets tough and daddy has to turn...this baby feels like it's riding on marshmallows.
2) At low RPM / speed, I feel like I'm "looking" for gears. It's like first it too low and second is too high. It's got gobbs of torque, but either the gearing is off or the fuel injector mixture is off.

Solutions I've tried:

1) I've preloaded my self to death and it's just not happening. It's like pogo sticks at 80% threads down on the front. At 20%, they are like marshmallows. Anything in between still doesn't feel right. I've played with the tire pressure too. No dice.
2) Nada. Haven't tried anything.

What you guys can help me with:

1) I know I need aftermarket shocks. Question is.....what to get? I'm pretty much sold on Elka. iShock and Elka both recommended getting Stage 2 for the fronts and Stage 3 for the rears. I'm not convinced I "need" that set up. My terrain is fairly consistant and if Elka can tune a pair of Stage 1's (front) and Stage 2's (rear) to my exact stats....why would I need to spend another $700 for cooler running fronts and compression/rebound rears when I'm not racing or riding long distances to where it would REALLY work the shocks.

Is anyone on here that rides similarly w/ the same gripes?


2) I'm an open book. If it's gearing, I imagine the cheap route would be to change teeth on counter sprocket. If EFI is the problem, how do I tell if it's too lean or too rich and what do I do to fix it....with in reason.

I know it's a long one....but I need to thoroughly explain myself.

Thanks for any insight or help.

Gene
 

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There are some things that would definitely help, but require spending money. I noticed a big difference between my first trip out and the trip I went on today.

Tires - Switching from stock tires to Kenda Kutters was a noticeable difference in how the bike turned, hooked up and generally handled. I think because they are a higher ply tire they don't 'roll' and .. well, make turning better

13t Sprocket - Easy to change and only like 12 bucks. I went back to a 14t because I mainly ride it on sand with 20" paddles, but for ANY trail riding the 13t makes a big difference and eliminates that 'gear searching' problem.

L8ton Sway Bar - I love mine, it makes some things much nicer. I can do cookies in sand now, couldn't do that before. On trails it does make turning slightly better but just that: Slightly. I only have the 9/16" one though, the 11/16" probably rides quite differently.

As for the suspension, I've arrived at the same point you have. Its just not good enough. Not much can be said for that... I want new suspension too


EDIT: Also welcome to the site! Its a great site
 

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If you do lots of trail riding and no top end stuff you should get the 13 tooth front sprocket. Lots of us have done it and it makes a world of difference. Don't have to slip the cluch as much and it doesn't stall as easy. But it kills your top end (you will top around 65-70)

A L8ton racing sway bar will help you turn (it will stiffen up your rear so it will slide more instead of pushing you through the turn, so it will be more like your 400)

Teixeira adjustable upper A arms for the front will also help you turn.

Tires also make a big difference in how it handles.

And last but not least, the bike is factory set really damn lean. If you do anything more than an aftermarket air filter you will tear it up without a programmer to give it more fuel.
 

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the 400 is quite a bit smaller and light. So it is gonna turn better it the tight stuff. The XX wants to hook up all the time. Which causes the front end to push and not cut like you would want it to. Your gonna need a better set of rubber. Maxxis Razr's or Kenda Kutters in 6 ply. I would suggest getting some of Teixeira Tech's stock replacement upper a-arms and adjust your caster and toe in order to help it turn better. You can get a L8TON sway bar and stiffen up the rear also helping it to turn better. Any shocks will be better than the stockers. Maybe just get some stage 1 elka's on the front and keep the rears stock. Do all that and it should handle the woods better.
 

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I wouldnt get the shocks right from elka, my spring rates were less than spot on. Maybe call Mr Bell at Precision Concepts... Him and his wife are good people.
 

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13T, tires, swaybar in that order. Upper a-arms are ordered so I can't comment on those yet. New shocks would be great, I hate the rear stockers. Feel like I am on a pogo stick at times.
 

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Shocks/tires on mine made it slide almost as good as the 11/16's bar on dirt roads.

But the 9/16's bar was a perfect mate for my setup. I still can't do everything the 11/16's can but I have more rear end flexibility and a softer ride. It's a give and take.
 

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the 400 is quite a bit smaller and light. So it is gonna turn better it the tight stuff. The XX wants to hook up all the time. Which causes the front end to push and not cut like you would want it to. Your gonna need a better set of rubber. Maxxis Razr's or Kenda Kutters in 6 ply. I would suggest getting some of Teixeira Tech's stock replacement upper a-arms and adjust your caster and toe in order to help it turn better. You can get a L8TON sway bar and stiffen up the rear also helping it to turn better. Any shocks will be better than the stockers. Maybe just get some stage 1 elka's on the front and keep the rears stock. Do all that and it should handle the woods better.
I agree with red n black and you can just send your stock rear shocks to Wiigstyle.
 

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Cheap set up

1.Full system with controler and take the air box lid off, most system are as good as one and other Barker, HMF, FMF, Two Bros etc are all good. If you want a loud set up try the HMF Ballance system it is wickedly loud.
2. 13 tooth front sprocket not for every one but it works in the tight stuff.
3. Fox Gen 2 with Eds upper arms. These shocks are so dam adjustable its silly and they work well on the 700xx (Ed has good prices on these products).
4. Wingstyle rear rebuild.
5. L8ton sway bar 9/16 (optional) If you have the rear set up right you may not need it.
6. I could tell you to buy 10inch rims but if your on a budget stick with your 11s (theres nothing wrong with them) and put Kenda kutters on the rear. Also get decent steer tyres.
 

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You don't need power adders if you already can't handle the corners.

Get it to turn, then add more power.
 

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I know I should have put them in some sort of order. Gee Im a naughty little boy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
this is a huge help guys. i really really appreciate it.

So...here's my thinking:

Step 1: Rear sway - makes the most sense to me as first step
Step 2: Tires
Step 3: 13t counter
Step 4: Elka Stage 1 front
Step 5: get Wiistyle to rebuild rears
Step 6: figure out the lean mixture problem

Some additional thoughts of mine:

- I really don't want to make this thing loud, so I'd like to swerve a full system or slip on. Opening up the box a little and getting a powercommander would be ok. It'll give a more throaty sound without adding noise from a pipe. What do you think?

- If I can control the steering w/ sway, tires and shocks....I'd prefer to swerve A-arms. Do you think that's possible?

- What do you guys think about the DS450 shocks on the 700? I'm seeing new sets all over the place for about $350. They have red springs and not yellow. I need my springs to be silver, black or red.

- Does anyone know about how much wiigstyle charges for a rear rebuild? Just trying to get a budget in mind.

- Any feedback on my Stage 1-6 is helpful. I don't want to go too crazy spending money.

You guys are awesome!
Gene
 

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The DS450 shock swap is a popular upgrade but you have to do some modifying. I'd go with those before elka stage 1's.

The only solution to it running lean is to either choke it or get a programmer.

Other than that it looks good. Most people don't even mess with the rears. It's mainly trial and error. See what works for you, if you don't like it sell it and try something else.

The setup one person loves might be horrible for someone else. It's hard to suggest stuff like that ya know?
 

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The wiigstyle rear shock conversion costs 625. He takes it all apart, re valves it, re springs for your weight (dual rate spring) and makes them compression adjustable. I should be getting mine back today and will post pictures if that's the case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
92K1500,

Thanks for the advice!

I'm not really interested in doing any shock mods. Would you then recommend I upgrade to the Stage 2's for the front instead?

TRX700XX,
Thanks for the pricing and feedback. I am VERY interested in what you think of the mod.



The DS450 shock swap is a popular upgrade but you have to do some modifying. I'd go with those before elka stage 1's.

The only solution to it running lean is to either choke it or get a programmer.

Other than that it looks good. Most people don't even mess with the rears. It's mainly trial and error. See what works for you, if you don't like it sell it and try something else.

The setup one person loves might be horrible for someone else. It's hard to suggest stuff like that ya know?
 

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Just my thoughts on this...
(1) Better tires... Kenda Kutter XC or Maxxis Razr & Razr2 (front)... go to 22" or 23" fronts.
(2) 13t
(3) Bite the bullet... Elka Stage 2 + compression for front and Stage 3 for rear. Being able to adjust your compression on all 4 corners makes a world of difference. So why Stage 3 for rear? Stage 2 only comes with a piggy back rezzie and won't fit back there... you need remotes.
(4) L8ton 9/16 sway bar.
(5) CCP steering damper.
(6) Go fast mod items.

BTW - You don't loose as much top end as was posted before with a 13t.

roadkill
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I'm ordering the sway bar and 13t sprocket now.

I'd prefer to not get rims, so should I still go with 22's on the front? What will that change? Also, what about the rear? Stick with 22 or go up to 23 to keep the offset consistant?

I see they don't really make 22x9x11 tires for them to be mounted on the rear.

Now that I'm getting the 13t sprocket what's the recommended sizes for front and rear if I want to keep my stock rims. Worse case, I'm open to getting aftermarket rears.

Thanks!




Just my thoughts on this...
(1) Better tires... Kenda Kutter XC or Maxxis Razr & Razr2 (front)... go to 22" or 23" fronts.
(2) 13t
(3) Bite the bullet... Elka Stage 2 + compression for front and Stage 3 for rear. Being able to adjust your compression on all 4 corners makes a world of difference. So why Stage 3 for rear? Stage 2 only comes with a piggy back rezzie and won't fit back there... you need remotes.
(4) L8ton 9/16 sway bar.
(5) CCP steering damper.
(6) Go fast mod items.

BTW - You don't loose as much top end as was posted before with a 13t.

roadkill
 

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I'm ordering the sway bar and 13t sprocket now.

I'd prefer to not get rims, so should I still go with 22's on the front? What will that change? Also, what about the rear? Stick with 22 or go up to 23 to keep the offset consistant?

I see they don't really make 22x9x11 tires for them to be mounted on the rear.

Now that I'm getting the 13t sprocket what's the recommended sizes for front and rear if I want to keep my stock rims. Worse case, I'm open to getting aftermarket rears.

Thanks!
Kenda and Maxxis do make a good tire for our stock 11" rear rims... both 6 ply.
Maxxis Razr 22x10x11
Kenda Kutter XC 22x9x11

As for stock front rims... You can get a Kenda in 21" or 22" but not 23" (stock are 21")
Maxxis Razr2 come in 21", 22" AND 23"

The taller front tire does help with turning... Don't know that much to know why, but it does.

My recommendation... 22" rear (with 13t) and at least 22" front.

roadkill
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the explanation. I truly appreciate your time.



Kenda and Maxxis do make a good tire for our stock 11" rear rims... both 6 ply.
Maxxis Razr 22x10x11
Kenda Kutter XC 22x9x11

As for stock front rims... You can get a Kenda in 21" or 22" but not 23" (stock are 21")
Maxxis Razr2 come in 21", 22" AND 23"

The taller front tire does help with turning... Don't know that much to know why, but it does.

My recommendation... 22" rear (with 13t) and at least 22" front.

roadkill
 
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