Honda TRX700XX Forum - Club700XX banner
1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings 700xx owners,

I am trying to settle on the most desired width and length characteristics for the 700xx. The length will be limited by the max misalignment angle of the cv's. +1 or +1.5 on the length shouldn't be a problem if we are going a few inches wider.

How wide would you all like to go? I think 49 inches might be a good max width just in case you want to go racing and you get some good after market tires which might push your width out closer to 50 inches.

Would you like me to keep the stock shock length so you can either get after market shocks or stay with your stock shocks? A little more width keeping the same springs will give you a little lower ride height. You could remedy this by adding a little more preload to your stock shocks.

Lend me your thoughts,
Andrew Ciasulli
Sonic Development Inc.
www.sonicoffroad.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
agreed ..some way to adapt the fitting to stock ..or aftermarket long-travel ... definitely a regular eye shock ..not the stupid clevice or however its spelled.

maybe where the shock mounts ... the plate could be removed with a different plate to accommodate a different shock... or a different a-arm all together for stock or aftermarket shocks. I want the absolute most travel possible within 50" width.

looks like the rear tire size from maxxis will be 22x10 -11 ... ill get some measurements from different wheel manufacturers if youd like... but as far as i know douglass is the only manufacturer to make 11" sportwheels .. and customized by OMF performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
Greetings 700xx owners,

I am trying to settle on the most desired width and length characteristics for the 700xx. The length will be limited by the max misalignment angle of the cv's. +1 or +1.5 on the length shouldn't be a problem if we are going a few inches wider.

How wide would you all like to go? I think 49 inches might be a good max width just in case you want to go racing and you get some good after market tires which might push your width out closer to 50 inches.

Would you like me to keep the stock shock length so you can either get after market shocks or stay with your stock shocks? A little more width keeping the same springs will give you a little lower ride height. You could remedy this by adding a little more preload to your stock shocks.

Lend me your thoughts,
Andrew Ciasulli
Sonic Development Inc.
www.sonicoffroad.com
CV angle will only be effected by shock length, and mounting position. A-Arm length will have no effect on binding of the CV's.

The tech questions we need answered are.......

How long is the stock rear shock eye-to-eye?.

Will a longer aftermarket shock and different shock mount just result in a very high price?.........and low sales.

I suspect that the stock rear shock is "long travel length" but doesn't give us as much travel as possible.....If so we dont need a longer shock just a better one.

I have a few shocks in my "shed" and all of the LT fronts are between 19" and 20.5" long.......

IMO....2 shock mounts (bolt-in eye & clevis) in the stock possition on +1.5" a-arms would be great. You could use stock or slightly longer aftermarket shocks and would give the customer alot of choice in setup without breaking the bank.

Linc
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,932 Posts
OZLinc... The a-arms will be offset for a longer wheelbase also is what he is saying. This would cause the CV angle he was referring to.

Sonic... Some of us I'm including myself would be interested in a extended subframe or a-arms that would ive us 2-3" more wheelbase. I mostly ride wood trails and the biggest problem is keeping the front down. With just the Big 3 it makes it alot worse. When the aftermarket catches up and more people start building these motors you will see a huge interest for something of the sort. get them out now so everyone doesn't have to wait later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am currently trying to get a 700xx down here so no one has to ship one to me.

I will make the a-arms so you can either use after market or stock shocks. I haven't measured the extended shock length for the 700xx yet. Can anyone provide this information.

smo0oth1 is correct. At max suspension extension as we drag the outer pivot points backward to extend the wheel base the cv angle increases. If we retain the same suspension travel and geometry as the a-arms become longer and the axle becomes longer we lessen the misalignment angle of the cv.

I am under the impression that the subframe length will only affect the lower a-arms placement. This means that an offset upper a-arm will have to be created to complete the setup. can anyone post some pictures of the rear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Not to far from you, 21161, Maryland.

Sorry about the mud.

Upper A-arm is NOT part of the lower subframe.




 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
I didn't realise you were looking at extending the wheel base.:yay: A longer wheel base would interest me as I'm in to long distance desert races where high speed straight line stability can be a great help.

3000+miles a week can take a hell of a toll on the body and mind; smooth and stable saves energy; energy reserves at the end of a hard week makes more of a difference than you may think. Most crashes in my kind of racing occur at the start when your full of beans or at the end when your too stuffed to hang on and you can't concentrate on the job at hand.

I have some great chassis pics at work that may help in your design process. I'll forward them tomorrow.

Linc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I rented a xx700 over the weekend and did quite a bit of design work. It looks as though extending the subframe won't be a good choice because then the shock mounts wouldn't match up. If we did extend the subframe we would also have to create all 4 a-arms any way.

Solution: I was able to design an a-arm and axle kit that will lengthen the ATV 2 inches and make the total width with stock tires 48.5" wide.

As for the shock dilemma and keeping the kit from getting too expensive. You can use your stock shock and screw an aluminum adapter to the bottom. This is a pretty simple procedure and then we don't have to worry about having multiple shock mounts. The adapter will come with bearings seals and spacers not shown below.



The shocks come stock 19.687" long. this is plenty of length for any of our big shock manufacturers to create a quality shock.

Pictures of the a-arm kit design are attached below. You can use your stock shocks or an after market set. It looks as though the after market shocks will have to be built with external reservoir, not piggybacks. The piggy back shocks will not fit the upper shock mounts of the your 700xx.

I designed the upper a-arms so that you can adjust your camber. it is important that you don't adjust your camber negative more then a few deg at ride height because this could create too much rear axle misalignment. I toyed around with the idea of making the lower a-arm adjustable as well. We have found that a little toe out in the rear helps with steering. Is this something you might be interested? It does make the assembly process more involved.

I would like to get at lease 3 pre-orders before I go ahead and do the first prototype and a small production run. This just means I need your billing information and you will be billed when we ship the setup to you.

I can build the first set some time this week and have the axel length ironed out by mid week. For me to place the axle order I will need someone to temporarily donate their inner CV star so the axel manufacturer can test fit the spline . If I schedule the axle cutting correctly you will only be without your cv star for one week.

The price of the kit will be $1799.00 with the stock shock adapters and $1649.00 without. If you decide to go with an after market shock manufacturer I will work with them so they have the shock mounting data and motion ratios so they can figure out the valving.





 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
so ... you are manufacturing a lower a-arm only? I am confused exactly what is being made here. how much more would it be for both the upper and lower a-arms?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
also ... when i understand correctly what is being manufactured ..ill buy it ... but im hoping it is an extended long-travel rear a-arm... only because i plan to hammer the shit out of this quad next spring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
445 Posts
Sound like upper & lower to me.......sounds like what your after too.

I really like the lower shock mount mod too.......great way to fix a $hitty little problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The A-arm kit will result in a total width of about 48.5 inches using stock tires and wheels and will add 2 inches to the length of the ATV.

The Rear a-arm kit consists of

Upper a-arm chrome molly tig welded and powder coated black.
Lower a-arm chrome molly tig welded and powder coated black.
Right and left high strength axles.

All bearings seals and pivoting hardware.

2 stock shock eyelet adapters optional; only needed if your using your stock shocks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
What if you already have elkas? Id hate to have to send them back and have a different end put on and lengthened. MORE $$$$$!!

Now, what exactly is this suppose to solve though mainly?? Cause my only gripe with this quad is low speed, first gear turning radius...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,932 Posts
Wider rear arms will improve low speed turning
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you already have Elkas just specify that and I will build the a-arms to reflect the type of mounting you need.

A few things will help your turning radius. First you can grind back the steering stops so you can achieve a greater steering angle from your front end. you can also run a little more toe in than normal, about 1/2" toe in seems to do it. Last and most important you can upgrade your anti roll bar.

At extreme slow speeds your turning radius will be better when you make the first two mods. As soon as you try to turn with any kind of speed your turning radius will get larger and you will start to push. If you use the front and rear anti roll bars the roll and weight transfer will squat the rear and you will shoot off into the direction you desire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
im not worried about turning so much ... im worried about flying through the air on uncompromising ruts... with razr rears you can gas and spin the rear end around. the longer and wider rear end will help when the machine "squats" keeping more weight on the front for easier turning.

i myself wouldnt grind the steering stops down unless you are using a very strong dampener.... handlebars cracking your ass in the ribs really sucks.

also ..wider rear means more stability on side hills while gassing and turning... add that with a very stiff slow rebound and possibly these rear anti-roll bars and money on the rear.

when will they be ready ..and can you email the specs of the rear a-arms along with the shock mount spec and ill forward it to fox ...
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top