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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings 700xx owners,

I am trying to settle on the most desired width and length characteristics for the 700xx. The length will be limited by the max misalignment angle of the cv's. +1 or +1.5 on the length shouldn't be a problem if we are going a few inches wider.

How wide would you all like to go? I think 49 inches might be a good max width just in case you want to go racing and you get some good after market tires which might push your width out closer to 50 inches.

Would you like me to keep the stock shock length so you can either get after market shocks or stay with your stock shocks? A little more width keeping the same springs will give you a little lower ride height. You could remedy this by adding a little more preload to your stock shocks.

Lend me your thoughts,
Andrew Ciasulli
Sonic Development Inc.
www.sonicoffroad.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am currently trying to get a 700xx down here so no one has to ship one to me.

I will make the a-arms so you can either use after market or stock shocks. I haven't measured the extended shock length for the 700xx yet. Can anyone provide this information.

smo0oth1 is correct. At max suspension extension as we drag the outer pivot points backward to extend the wheel base the cv angle increases. If we retain the same suspension travel and geometry as the a-arms become longer and the axle becomes longer we lessen the misalignment angle of the cv.

I am under the impression that the subframe length will only affect the lower a-arms placement. This means that an offset upper a-arm will have to be created to complete the setup. can anyone post some pictures of the rear?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I rented a xx700 over the weekend and did quite a bit of design work. It looks as though extending the subframe won't be a good choice because then the shock mounts wouldn't match up. If we did extend the subframe we would also have to create all 4 a-arms any way.

Solution: I was able to design an a-arm and axle kit that will lengthen the ATV 2 inches and make the total width with stock tires 48.5" wide.

As for the shock dilemma and keeping the kit from getting too expensive. You can use your stock shock and screw an aluminum adapter to the bottom. This is a pretty simple procedure and then we don't have to worry about having multiple shock mounts. The adapter will come with bearings seals and spacers not shown below.



The shocks come stock 19.687" long. this is plenty of length for any of our big shock manufacturers to create a quality shock.

Pictures of the a-arm kit design are attached below. You can use your stock shocks or an after market set. It looks as though the after market shocks will have to be built with external reservoir, not piggybacks. The piggy back shocks will not fit the upper shock mounts of the your 700xx.

I designed the upper a-arms so that you can adjust your camber. it is important that you don't adjust your camber negative more then a few deg at ride height because this could create too much rear axle misalignment. I toyed around with the idea of making the lower a-arm adjustable as well. We have found that a little toe out in the rear helps with steering. Is this something you might be interested? It does make the assembly process more involved.

I would like to get at lease 3 pre-orders before I go ahead and do the first prototype and a small production run. This just means I need your billing information and you will be billed when we ship the setup to you.

I can build the first set some time this week and have the axel length ironed out by mid week. For me to place the axle order I will need someone to temporarily donate their inner CV star so the axel manufacturer can test fit the spline . If I schedule the axle cutting correctly you will only be without your cv star for one week.

The price of the kit will be $1799.00 with the stock shock adapters and $1649.00 without. If you decide to go with an after market shock manufacturer I will work with them so they have the shock mounting data and motion ratios so they can figure out the valving.





 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The A-arm kit will result in a total width of about 48.5 inches using stock tires and wheels and will add 2 inches to the length of the ATV.

The Rear a-arm kit consists of

Upper a-arm chrome molly tig welded and powder coated black.
Lower a-arm chrome molly tig welded and powder coated black.
Right and left high strength axles.

All bearings seals and pivoting hardware.

2 stock shock eyelet adapters optional; only needed if your using your stock shocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you already have Elkas just specify that and I will build the a-arms to reflect the type of mounting you need.

A few things will help your turning radius. First you can grind back the steering stops so you can achieve a greater steering angle from your front end. you can also run a little more toe in than normal, about 1/2" toe in seems to do it. Last and most important you can upgrade your anti roll bar.

At extreme slow speeds your turning radius will be better when you make the first two mods. As soon as you try to turn with any kind of speed your turning radius will get larger and you will start to push. If you use the front and rear anti roll bars the roll and weight transfer will squat the rear and you will shoot off into the direction you desire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Shock data for A-arms Lets get things rolling

I just received the lead time information on the axles. We are looking at a 4-6 weeks. Lets get some order verifications going and I will get production under way. Send me an email and let me know who is in [email protected] .


Shock information. Stock shocks will work.

If using fox shocks Evol chambers won't get in the way. Piggy back shock will not fit. You must use external reservoir with at least 10" of hose.

Shock eyelet to eyelet dimension is 19.68 inches shock compressed length 14.68 inches. Total of 5 inches of shock travel.

Upper shock eyelet width 1.175"
lower eyelet width 1.175

Motion ratio measured every two inches of wheel compression.

first two 2.7:1
second two 2.35:1
third two 2.15:1
fourth two 2:1
fifth two 2:1

Best Regards,
Andrew Ciasulli
Sonic Offroad
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
If I can get a minimum of 4 purchases secured from the members here I will give a one time deal 15% off as long as we can get some reviews posted up. The deadline to have your order in is 1/10/08 to get the discount. Delivery will be about 6 weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
ETA on Rear A-arm System

We are starting the build of 6 a-arm sets. The axles are the long lead item but they are on order 4-6 weeks. they will be in between 2/7 and 2/14/09. In the mean time we are starting the a-arms this week. I will post some pictures of the a-arms on the 700xx as soon as I get them.

Once the a-arms are done I will post press releases with the mags and the big websites as a new product. The arms are first come first serve so get your order in now to reserve your set.

Ps. we will be doing some snow riding this weekend... 6-10 inches!

Best regards,
Andrew
[email protected]
610-863-0899
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Adjustable camber is beneficial for race tuning. When racing we want to achieve maximum traction from our tires. For drag racing zero camber angle is desired because we are only going strait and we have no cornering forces. But when the vehicle goes around a corner the tire flexes and rolls under. The traction patch switches from dead center to riding up the side wall of the tire where we get much less traction. By setting the camber slightly negative we can counter act the tire roll and achieve more traction.

This is why you see motox racers running a few degrees of negative camber in the front end.

As for the toe in the rear, we do get a benefit by toeing the rear out slightly. When the vehicle tracks around a corner the rear outer tire will try to drive slightly to the outside reducing over steer which is our biggest problem with the 700xx.

If you are desert racing these concerns probably won't apply to you but if you are racing TT, Flat track, Motox, or XC it would be important to be competitive.

The CV angle is something to worry about. You can only push the cv so far until you start having problems. The fixed outer cv that Honda uses is rated for at least 35deg of misalignment. This is the same type of outer CV joint front wheel drive cars use. The inner joint is something to worry about and a max of about 26deg should be used. Any more then that you will have problems.

If you try to use stock axles on a rhino with a lift kit you will have problems because it uses a similar cv that the Honda uses on the inside. If you went with a Gorilla axle setup you can handle extreme angles both inner and outer (they claim 40deg) because they use the same type of cv joint inner and outer. The cv joint and balls are fixed and the axle does the plunging to make up for the geometrical difference of suspension.

We have made the first set of a-arms for the Honda XX! I will take some pictures and post them once we get the axles in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Sonic rear a-arm updates

I have attached some pre-powder coat photos of the first set sold. We have to make final axle updates so they won't ship for a few weeks yet. I have updated a web page dedicated to the Honda 700xx so you can stay updated with the products we provide for the Honda XX. Our banner will soon be a direct link to this page on our site.

http://www.sonicoffroad.com/700XX Components.html










If using after market shocks $1649.00
If using stock shocks $1799.00
Stock adder due to lower shock eyelet adapter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
A-arm adjustment

The only adjustment you will need to make with the a-arms will be the camber. The easiest way to adjust your camber is to assemble the a-arms. Then put your ATV on a flat level surface. Take a square and put it up against the side of the tire. you will want your tires to slightly lean in at the top. We usually shoot for a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap between the square and where it meets the tire. To adjust this you just screw the upper rod ends in or out accordingly. The a-arms will come with the rod ends very close to the correct rod end length so minimal adjustment is needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
It does use stock spindles and hubs.

If you remove the wheel scrapers it will fit a 10" Hiper wheel. it will have to be a non bead lock inner and you will have to get them to set you up with the correct bolt pattern. I'm not sure about the other manufacturers because I don't have their wheel contour in my computer. If you do use one of these wheels it will make your ATV very wide like 51" because the xx has a very deep dish and narrow wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Andy, If I add a sway bar kit now and decide to switch to your swingarms later will any modification to the sway bar ends be neccesary?

I am so tempted to just go nuts with this, but I have to stick to Zilla restoration project first.
The a-arms and anti roll bars are all interchangeable so no modifications will be needed either way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Got any videos of this thing in the sand?:

Funny you say that because I added the instructions late yesterday.

I wish I had the sand videos too. Unfortunately We only have the ones doing donuts in our parking lot. The customer has some videos but I haven't received them yet. He plans to do a bunch more to the machine and then get us some good videos. SXS Mag wants to do a writeup but the customer has a lot of cosmetics to take care of first.
 
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