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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
ETA on Rear A-arm System

We are starting the build of 6 a-arm sets. The axles are the long lead item but they are on order 4-6 weeks. they will be in between 2/7 and 2/14/09. In the mean time we are starting the a-arms this week. I will post some pictures of the a-arms on the 700xx as soon as I get them.

Once the a-arms are done I will post press releases with the mags and the big websites as a new product. The arms are first come first serve so get your order in now to reserve your set.

Ps. we will be doing some snow riding this weekend... 6-10 inches!

Best regards,
Andrew
[email protected]
610-863-0899
 

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it would be nice if somebody made a after market rear top aarm that is camber adjustable for a decent price that was the same length has stock can something like that be made
I doubt you will find anyone doing this. People would adjust them without checking the the CV angle and would end up running into more problems.
 

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what do you mean cv angle dont the cv angle change has you ride it
Yes the angle does change but Honda designed the suspension so it would not max out or exceed the limits of the CV. By making the arms adjustable you are taking the chance of maxing out the CV without knowing it. Most people would never bother to check the angle on the CV and therefore would start breaking parts.

This is the same reason you can't just add longer travel shocks to the rear. Yes the arms will travel further than the stock shocks allow and the CV will also travel further too but for reliablity the CV's are not allowed to max out.

I think the adjustment you are asking for would be so minor due to the limits of the CV angle that it wouldn't be worth building the arms.
 

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I seriously doubt someone adjusting camber for different race setups would wreak havoc on the CV's. The amount of camber it would take to do so would be unbearable to drive. I agree Honda built the suspension as to where it wouldn't max out the CV angle but I'm sure the stock suspension has plenty of room for deviation.
 

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well ..to gain 4 inches of travel takes an entirely new a-arm and drive shaft ... so there is something to what is being said about the extreme cv angle.

if you travel too much the shaft will come right out and when it tries to go back in it will not andwill be an awful mess for whomever is riding ...i wont even get into the possibilities of what could happen ...

but ..the shaft coming out going at excessive speeds could turn the shaft into either a javelin or a pole vault ..and well ... there ya go.
 

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I seriously doubt someone adjusting camber for different race setups would wreak havoc on the CV's. The amount of camber it would take to do so would be unbearable to drive. I agree Honda built the suspension as to where it wouldn't max out the CV angle but I'm sure the stock suspension has plenty of room for deviation.
You would be surprised how little of an angle difference it takes to wreck a CV. I have gone through this alot. When the rhino craze first started I was right there and ran through a lot of problems with the CV's. Most of it had to do with changing the angle with the long travel or adjustable setups.

I'm still unsure on why you would want to adjust the camber on the rear wheel. If you wanted to lean the wheel in at the top this would just cause the CV to be at a more extreme angle at full droop and I see no handling benefit.

Adjusting the toe in or out would give you more or less traction and would be less hard on the CV angle problem but I really don't think you would get that much benefit out of it either. The 700 is already set with the correct toe in the rear and works great for both strait line tracking and traction.
 

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You would be surprised how little of an angle difference it takes to wreck a CV. I have gone through this alot. When the rhino craze first started I was right there and ran through a lot of problems with the CV's. Most of it had to do with changing the angle with the long travel or adjustable setups.

Camber adjustment in reasonable limits will not harm our bikes. Not sure about the initial rhino problems your refering to but if it was from lifting the bike that is a whole other situation and can quickly lead to problems. I'm not trying to justify reasons so people will adjust the camber but would like to know myself what his goal is.

I'm still unsure on why you would want to adjust the camber on the rear wheel. If you wanted to lean the wheel in at the top this would just cause the CV to be at a more extreme angle at full droop and I see no handling benefit.

I have no intentions on changing mine

Adjusting the toe in or out would give you more or less traction and would be less hard on the CV angle problem but I really don't think you would get that much benefit out of it either. The 700 is already set with the correct toe in the rear and works great for both strait line tracking and traction.

Agreed
...
 

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looks like custom axis will make a set of rear air shocks to fit sonics rear a-arms ... i like what i read about them ..i dont like the retail price of ..well its a lot.

Ill see if i can get a better price ... if they were in the 12-1300 range ... which should be enough for a dealer to make a bit of profit instead of 17-1800 retail ..which is ridiculous.

why am i after the air shocks ... because im totally anti-spring/coil over. This is about weight savings ... and well ..springs weigh a lot ... which may or may not be better ...but id rather spend the weight somewhere else ... like with the roll bars ..so an equal trade in weight for hopefully an added benefit in handling/cornering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Adjustable camber is beneficial for race tuning. When racing we want to achieve maximum traction from our tires. For drag racing zero camber angle is desired because we are only going strait and we have no cornering forces. But when the vehicle goes around a corner the tire flexes and rolls under. The traction patch switches from dead center to riding up the side wall of the tire where we get much less traction. By setting the camber slightly negative we can counter act the tire roll and achieve more traction.

This is why you see motox racers running a few degrees of negative camber in the front end.

As for the toe in the rear, we do get a benefit by toeing the rear out slightly. When the vehicle tracks around a corner the rear outer tire will try to drive slightly to the outside reducing over steer which is our biggest problem with the 700xx.

If you are desert racing these concerns probably won't apply to you but if you are racing TT, Flat track, Motox, or XC it would be important to be competitive.

The CV angle is something to worry about. You can only push the cv so far until you start having problems. The fixed outer cv that Honda uses is rated for at least 35deg of misalignment. This is the same type of outer CV joint front wheel drive cars use. The inner joint is something to worry about and a max of about 26deg should be used. Any more then that you will have problems.

If you try to use stock axles on a rhino with a lift kit you will have problems because it uses a similar cv that the Honda uses on the inside. If you went with a Gorilla axle setup you can handle extreme angles both inner and outer (they claim 40deg) because they use the same type of cv joint inner and outer. The cv joint and balls are fixed and the axle does the plunging to make up for the geometrical difference of suspension.

We have made the first set of a-arms for the Honda XX! I will take some pictures and post them once we get the axles in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Sonic rear a-arm updates

I have attached some pre-powder coat photos of the first set sold. We have to make final axle updates so they won't ship for a few weeks yet. I have updated a web page dedicated to the Honda 700xx so you can stay updated with the products we provide for the Honda XX. Our banner will soon be a direct link to this page on our site.

http://www.sonicoffroad.com/700XX Components.html










If using after market shocks $1649.00
If using stock shocks $1799.00
Stock adder due to lower shock eyelet adapter.
 

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Looks good guys. If they work as well as the anti-roll setup, you guys have another winning product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
A-arm adjustment

The only adjustment you will need to make with the a-arms will be the camber. The easiest way to adjust your camber is to assemble the a-arms. Then put your ATV on a flat level surface. Take a square and put it up against the side of the tire. you will want your tires to slightly lean in at the top. We usually shoot for a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap between the square and where it meets the tire. To adjust this you just screw the upper rod ends in or out accordingly. The a-arms will come with the rod ends very close to the correct rod end length so minimal adjustment is needed.
 
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