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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's one on Rocky Mountain ATV:

$329 (and free shipping)



Okay, so I hate, hate, hate eBay threads and promise not to do this again but I thought that this one was worth mentioning: (maybe)

$470 shipped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Soni...338420QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Not too much wow and dazzle with this image:



More mounted:







...and now that I have posted this let me add my $.02.


I think that if anything you would only want to get a slightly stiffer sway bar for the 700xx. (see: "slighly less flex in the bar itself") Anything like the ones mentioned and pictured above (I assume) would only make it like a SRA quad but with a more engineered, and now useless independent rear suspension.

I believe that the aftermarket may be missing the point.


What do you guys think?



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I seen that this morning and was going to post about it, seems to be engineered correctly. Why the dislike for eBay?
 

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Ahhh.... I see
 

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My $.02 worth,
I agree with you on the sway bars, adding a stiffer bar takes away from the "independant" nature of the design. I believe the smarter route would be to invest in fully adjustable shocks and stiffer springs. The 700XX's that were used in Baja recently went this route and it made vast improvements in reducing body roll, improving ride quality and a reduction in the front end pushing (according to write ups that I read). The pricing for these sway bars is almost half way there but solve less than half the problems.
 

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Hello everyone. My name is Andrew Ciasulli. I own and operate a Product development company in wind gap pa called Sonic Development Inc. Our ATV and Off road department is called Sonic Offroad. I do all types of product development from the pharmaceutical industry to the hydraulics industry, but one of my fondest interests is independent rear suspension for ATV's and extremely fast offroad race buggies.

We are a full fabrication and CNC machine shop. We engineer and build all of our components in house. Our products are then tested for durability by pro racers before they go out the door.

We are just about ready to release our Sonic Edge Anti Roll System that you found on ebay. We have been researching independent suspension for many years and have done much research on anti roll systems. As said in the ebay article ATV sport magazine did a sneak peak in their article about our anti roll system and it works great. If any of you are seriously considering making this upgrade call me and I will send you a copy. I have 25 of them so first come first serve 610-751-1306. I will grantee you it’s the best upgrade you can make to your 700xx.

If you have any questions please ask. I know most forums frown on advertising so I hope no one minds check out our website when you get a chance. www.sonicoffroad.com .
 

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Whats up Andrew, I was speaking to you via email about the extended A-Arms. What are you sending a copy of upon request?
 

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The January 09 issue of ATV Sport Magazine. This issue just came out. I purchased several copies. In this issue we have a 6 page product review and shootout between my Independent Rear Suspension kit for sport ATV's and the Honda xx. It also is a product review on our Anti roll system for the Honda 700XX. This is a link to ATV Sport mag where they give a sneak peak of the article. http://www.atvsport.com/output.cfm?id=1926847
 

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right on ... andrew is a straight up good guy to talk to ... but i am thinking now ... that the anti-roll bars do defeat the purpose of independent suspension ... I agree with the much stiffer 4 way rear shocks ... not some el-cheapos ..but some damn good ones. I think the anti-roll bar in the front however .. would be a good thing.

I like the idea of long travel rear a-arms more than the anti-roll bars ... hope you get those created andrew....

adam
 

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Adam,
This is the exact response I originally had before we started working with the Anti-roll bars. What I found after months of testing is that the anti roll bar does much more then you could ever expect.

The extreme roll stability problem with ATV's is our undesirable center of gravity height to track width. If we think about a competitive CORR race truck, we have an extremely wide vehicle but relatively low CG height. These CORR trucks still have Anti roll bars front and rear.

The idea behind the anti roll bar is that bumps are large enough in magnitude to just twist the anti roll bar and let the suspension do its work, but when a constant cornering force is applied to the vehicle the anti roll bar has enough spring to keep you stable.

A front anti roll bar working in conjunction with a rear anti roll bar also helps cut down on front outside corner dive. It also quickens weight transfer to the rear when coming off the corner.

I have a good amount of information on my Tech FAQ section that might give some of you some insight on Independent Suspension and handling.

Adam,
I have talked to you quite a bit and you seem like a trust worthy guy. I would be willing to send you an anti roll system for you to test. Simply put the system on your 700xx. Then take it out for a day of riding. If your not extremely satisfied you can just ship the sway bar back no harm done. If you like the anti roll bars then send me payment and keep the bar. I am willing to bet I never see that anti roll set again.

Testing my concept further, put your stock front suspension back on your xx with my anti roll bar setup and I can grantee you will feel more stable and you will enjoy your ride more then with your fox shocks and Roll design A-arms. This could be a good test that others on this forum might enjoy.

Andrew-
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While I hear what you're saying I just don't see the top racers using anything like this for the 700xx.

Also, when you say "corr truck", which of the 5 truck divisions are you talking about? All kinds of racing uses sway bars, CORR rules state that you can remove sway bars from the buggies (page 96) so I believe that your argument has merit but lacks in specifics to this machine.

I believe that while this would\could be important for flat and MX tracks but I doubt that the majority of the owners of IRS machines who don't race MX or flat track would want a stiffer, more SRA feel to their quads. I may be wrong, I've asked some of the Outlaw IRS guys the same question as more of them race their quads presently.

As always, I will be forthcoming with any and all feedback.

As a final note, please don't take this and my other responses as me bashing you or your products, but rather a healthy debate on what's best. That's what a forum's all about right?



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id try them ... only if you promise to make some rear a-arms ..and if i like them ill buy them. I myself enjoy flat track racing ...but presently can only race in an open non-sanctioned race ..well unless a few craptors happen to show up ..then we have a race ya know...the way it stands i can smoke a raptor on a track ... just because ive learned how to use the "sway" to my advantage...

send a whole set ... ill install them ... gimmie a few weekends (its very cold now and i dislike cold) and a good weekend of riding through harsh rocky trails, ruts, and a tt/flat track ill state exactly what i think.

or you could hold some sort of competition ... maybe sponsor this forum in some way via a set of rear a-arms and/or a full set of your sway-bars ... and make a real review from a real rider part of the agreement... photos ... maybe a magazine article where the writers of your choice are given the opportunity to look/ride/test the equipment you are creating...

seems like it would be a fair contest of sorts provided the owner of this forum agrees or whatever ..and you do too! would have to be sure the entrees had a 700xx ...and would not sell the equipment... and in turn you also make sound advice via the forum / phone ..and im sure you would have a strong core following of 700xx enthusiasts ..where each of us would support you in some ways.... lets be honest ... not many folks can afford the knowlege you have ... or 3000-5000 for a suspension system ... but our word of mouth is worth more than any magazine article you could have.

lastly ... people love to feel appreciated. I can afford this stuff ...and could actually earn it if i wanted to race full-time, but i just like to ride when i want to ... not dictated by some hideous schedule by sponsorships.

there are many fellow riders here that ride every day just for the fun of it ... which is really the core business market for atv aftermarket stuff ... it would be a refreshing change to see a manufacturer send out stuff to us normal every-day riders instead of sending it to an already over-sponsored arrogant asshole factory rider that has forgotten the fun and joy of atv riding with friends ... ya know ... drinking beer ... causing trouble ... speeding away from angry land owners and police haha...

there are many guys ...and maybe ladies too that would appreciate your roll bars that would not normally buy them ... either for personal reasons ... or because the upgrade is un-proven ... or they just can't afford it. those are the people that will give you a TRUE review of your stuff... and MOST IMPORTANTLY ... spread the good word ... as previously stated ... you dont get that from a magazine... and then you have a solid backing of core riders ... and the buzz begins from the ground up.
 

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While I hear what you're saying I just don't see the top racers using anything like this for the 700xx.

Also, when you say "corr truck", which of the 5 truck divisions are you talking about? All kinds of racing uses sway bars, CORR rules state that you can remove sway bars from the buggies (page 96) so I believe that your argument has merit but lacks in specifics to this machine.

I believe that while this would\could be important for flat and MX tracks but I doubt that the majority of the owners of IRS machines who don't race MX or flat track would want a stiffer, more SRA feel to their quads. I may be wrong, I've asked some of the Outlaw IRS guys the same question as more of them race their quads presently.

As always, I will be forthcoming with any and all feedback.

As a final note, please don't take this and my other responses as me bashing you or your products, but rather a healthy debate on what's best. That's what a forum's all about right?
I don't take what you say as criticisms and if you take a look at my Tech FAQ section of my website you will see that I'm always eager to express my thoughts and research with others. It sounds like you have some good knowledge of independent suspension. This is probably why you purchased the XX in the first place. You no longer have to wear a kidney belt and the ride is extremely smooth.

I too love independent suspension. I have spent a great deal of time in the last 6 years researching, developing, and testing IRS on ATV's. If you look through the products I offer you can see that I am not all about the $$$. I am one for technology and I want to bring it to the ATV industry because I love ATV's. Of course, i also need to be a business man or I wouldn't be in business.

Racers for the most part are constrained to the components provided to them from the manufacturers. Durablue and Rath don't make anti roll bars that are rated for extreme travel and the kind of abuse that desert racing, motox, and cross country produce. These racers have had only a few months to try to get the most out of their machine. We have spent years developing IRS. You could say maybe we don't know how to make a machine handle as well as the desert race team did. But I can assure they can't produce tire deflection to the magnitude in the picture below. The only way we are able to achieve this type of traction was with Anti Roll bars all around and the same roll stiffness in this picture is used in Cross country racing.





Our first IRS kit was sold to Honda R&D in California before anyone heard of the 700xx existing. My first IRS system without sway bars was better then the Honda engineers were able to come up with in 7 years of development with a lot more man power then I have. We did our testing out in Ohio with a pro rider that rides for the Honda. Every time we went out there several Japaneses guys just happened to be out for the ride. I'm a modest person and I'm not trying to brag I'm just trying to get everyone away from the common idea (if Honda didn't do it then it can't be any good).

If Honda hasn't figured out their roll stability problem already then it comes down to simply a design issue. A sway bar can only twist to a given degree before the spring member fatigues and falls to permanent set. Its simple math. If A 13" torsion member can twist a total of 15deg then a 26" torsion bar can twist 30deg. Our patent pending design allows you to use a long bar and connect the linkage closer to pivot of the a-arm. There fore you won't fatigue our bar made from 4130 chrome molly yet we can yield a greater roll resistance.

Honda and Polaris are magnitudes off with their roll rates! We have proven this with one of their test engineers and you can bet you will see 2013 Honda xx with a front and rear sway bar much stiffer then the current design. Their problem is how to make a bar that can handle the abuse but utilizes a stiffer roll rate. If you doubled the diameter of the current XX anti roll bar it would break! If they make their bar longer then it has to mount out farther on the a-arm requiring a larger twist angle. Second problem is mas production. you can be sure production limitations have a lot to do with it. they won't mas produce a anti roll system that utilizes many pieces and costs much more then the common design. I have tried many different designs before our current one and this one works very well.

In one month our first production run will be complete. At this point if the top racers don't have upgraded sway bars they won't be top racers any more.

We have been able to create extremely competitive IRS ATV's and the revolution has already started. We hare honing our setups and our numbers are impressive. Unfortunately IRS is extremely expensive to do right and I believe our main market will be upgrades for the IRS vehicles made by the big manufacturers. People are very resistant to extreme change, but look at the following the 700xx has already created.

As far as they type of CORR vehicle we are talking Pro2 and 4, also super buggy. The sway bar removal is allowed but not practical for the high speed high performance classes. For these vehicles a rear sway bar is more important then a front. These vehicles with a wide track width to center of gravity height ratio. also the cg on these vehicles are much closer to the suspension's roll center making the force fulcrum much shorter when compared to an ATV. We are at an extreme Body roll disadvantage with ATV's.
 

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I just might have to make a set of these my Xmas present to myself. Added to the Elka's, it should make for one heck of a ride.
 

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To get the full effect of the anti roll system you need the front and rear anti roll bar. If you only get the rear bar it will help your steering greatly, but you will still have the standard forward corner dive when breaking on corner entry.


The rear anti roll bar is $450.00 and the front is $465.00.
 
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