Alba PCV with autotune VS EHS with Barker - Club700XX - Honda TRX700XX Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Alba PCV with autotune VS EHS with Barker

Hey guys,

Listen, I am reading posts after posts on hear & I have to say I'm more confused then I used to be when I started. want to purchase the big 3 but don't know which is easier to install & set up.

My first option is Alba full exhaust with PCV programmer & autotune with EHS lid. I've seen the dyno charts on here & it seems to be a popular set up. The only thing is I'm scared that Imight not be able to set up the controller correctly & I don't have a dyno around to play with.

My second option that has just popped up lately is a Barker full exhaust with EHX lid & programmer. I 've only seen dyno charts with there modified top end kit, would like to see a dyno chart with just controller, exhaust & lid. Also would it be better the regular lid or the lid with the side vents (new) + the programming for both the lids must be different.

In the end I'd like to purchase a kit that would be ready to install (pre-programmed may be) so I just put it in & it works. My quad is brand new & I don't want to mess it up. It's the only XX around that would be modified so no one around to help me dooing it.

I'm openned to EHS making me an offer for a kit also if it's something that can be done.

Regards, Joe.

Honda's #1 baby!!!!!!!!!
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 09:59 AM
 
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Hey Joe we are sending tim at barkers some stuff to dyno a brand new 700xx next week. Our lid, tuner and his pipe so we can have pre-post results for the exact setup. It will be about as close as out of the box no hassel performance as you can get. I will put the result up when we get them.


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post #3 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you very much for helping me out, can't wait to see the results & let me know how to contact you for me to purchase the complete kit, I think we'll be doing business in the near future. I like when companies take care off there customer's, not much of that anymore!

I do have a simple question though, once the controller is set do you have to play around with it for different temperatures or altitudes? Can you just set it up & leave it be. I'm not talking to make the very best dyno chart I'm just talking about different riding conditions? In the end once it's on & works good do you have to do anything for different riding conditions?

Regards, Joey.

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 10:44 AM
 
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you dont have to do anything and it will work fine but i highly suggest playing with it that is the beauty about FI it gives you the ability to make changes on the fly. The controllers are very easy to work with once you do it a few times. It will be setup for your situation how it shows up and it should work very well but there will almost always be a need to try a few things to see if its setup the best for your bike. Everybike and situation is a little different even with the same parts installed it will be close but may or may not be perfect. We have no problem with people calling us for a intial walk through verbally of how the controller works or with questions and usually after they read the instructions and install it they are comfortable with how it works.

as far as specific changes once you tune it in the stock fi will do a ok job of keeping up with temp difference but adding a little fuel or taking it away usually will work better IMO if your changing altitudes you will want use the controller


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post #5 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe honda #1 View Post
Thank you very much for helping me out, can't wait to see the results & let me know how to contact you for me to purchase the complete kit, I think we'll be doing business in the near future. I like when companies take care off there customer's, not much of that anymore!

I do have a simple question though, once the controller is set do you have to play around with it for different temperatures or altitudes? Can you just set it up & leave it be. I'm not talking to make the very best dyno chart I'm just talking about different riding conditions? In the end once it's on & works good do you have to do anything for different riding conditions?

Regards, Joey.
from what i understand, the autotune pcV is a wideband sensor plugged into the power commander, this allows you to put in a desired air fuel ratio and the pcv does the calculations for you, with this setup the pcv is always adjusting to temperature changes and will readjust everytime a mod is added.
i have been looking at the auto tune for my quad and streetbikes but atm im just sitting on the fence because i looked at EHS dyno charts and have been reading about the programmer and it seems just as easy.

the only thing i am looking at is tunability for future mods or climate changes as you have mentioned, would we have to download a new tune for each mod from ehs? the climate change is not usually a big enough problem to worry about. im sure EHS will answer this for us.

2008 TRX 700XX (Black/Charcoal)
13T,Stage 1 hotcam,11:1 CP piston,L8ton Sway bar,Orange Maier Plastics,21" razr 1 front,ITP Sandstars on 10" ITP T9 Pro Series,FMF powerbomb/powercore.EHS programmer next.

2007 GSXR 1000 (Orange/Black)
-1,+2 Driven Kit,K&N, Full Leovince stainless exhaust,PcIIIUSB/Dyno tune,Hyperpro Damper,ASV Levers,Woodcraft Engine covers,Woodcraft Clipons,Xenon HID,Carrozzeria Wheels,Galfer Rotors(gsxr.com 2010 bike of the year)
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yes I understand what your saying about future mods. The thing is I only plan on putting on a K&N filter, EHS lid, complete exhaust & programmer after that I'm done, I won't have to put anything else because I do think there's going to be a quad within a 100 mile radius that can come even close to touching me. I'm not putting theses mods for racing I only do trail ridding but I do want to make sure that if I ever do run accross a stock XX I can take him no problem. Also the reason for these mods is because I have a definitive dis-avantage weight wise, I'm close to twice as heavy as most of the riders so the extra power will be nice to level the playing field. I'm also close friends with the owner of the local Honda shop & there quite anxious to see what this beast can do. They sold 2 other XX's other then mine but nobody ever did any mods to them & at the dealer there impressed with a stock XX so they'll be blown away with this set-up. The only thing is I don't want to go too far with it because I don't have any support from local mechanics because there still playing around with jetting on non EFI quads, so all I have for help on these mods is you guys & the company were I buy all the mods. That's why it's important for me to have company service at it's best!

Joe

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post #7 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 11:29 AM
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Like Eric said if you have any questions or problems please call. With EHS's controller it should have enough range to be used for future mods. I should have some dyno results from a stocker late next week if everything goes like it is supposed to. I have a brand new one in the shop that has never been fired up yet.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, can't wait to see the results!!! I'll be contacting Eric short after to purchase the package, exhaust, lid & controller.

Regards, Joe

Honda's #1 baby!!!!!!!!!
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyorange View Post
from what i understand, the autotune pcV is a wideband sensor plugged into the power commander, this allows you to put in a desired air fuel ratio and the pcv does the calculations for you, with this setup the pcv is always adjusting to temperature changes and will readjust everytime a mod is added.
i have been looking at the auto tune for my quad and streetbikes but atm im just sitting on the fence because i looked at EHS dyno charts and have been reading about the programmer and it seems just as easy.

the only thing i am looking at is tunability for future mods or climate changes as you have mentioned, would we have to download a new tune for each mod from ehs? the climate change is not usually a big enough problem to worry about. im sure EHS will answer this for us.
Your correct the pc5 with the wideband kit will auto calibrate at least is supposed I have some mixed opinions on how well it does. But its technology is very cool and overall itís a pretty neat setup. What one doesnít want to do though is basically set it to operate at one constant afr rate. Generally the going consensus is that everyone thinks engines run there best at somewhere are 13.0 or whatever they want basically somewhere in the 13.-14 area. Which is true somewhat.

Usually when I tune something I will shoot for a 13.0 flat line to start with then I will play with different areas that either likes more or less fuel. Some engines will like to be at 12.5-12.7 and make the most power there some like a range lean on bottom rich on top or vice vs one could set it at a constant rate of 13 and it will perform well but not great you really need to find out where it wants to run richer and where it want to run leaner so even if you have a auto tune you should still play with it. Also one really needs to keep an eye on it to make sure its doing what it supposed to and no overcorrecting or reading false values. DJ still recommends taking it to a tuning center to verify that the map is right and its working correctly


As far as our controller the map that comes with it is pretty adjustable but it is made for a certain scenario. The adjustments we leave on it would make it possible to add a cam or a piston or something similar. But for something radical like what we did for the top end package a new starting map is really necessary the fuel hand offs and delivery quantity/times are all different. It is not something one can download directly we would have to update the controller with a different parameter set which we would do for free.

I will give you a common scenario we try to plan for customer buys a kit pipe, controller, lid the controller is setup for that when it shows up customer tunes it in for his needs (usually very minor adjustments).

Brief outline of settings if you want to read more about them go here. (Right hand side)
http://www.ehsracing.com/products/efi_controllers.htm

Six modes of adjustment
1- Low speed fuel quantity
2- Mid or accell fuel quantity
3- High or wide open fuel quantity

4- Low speed fuel timing
5- Mid or accell fuel timing
6- High or wide open fuel timing



We try to set it so itís at its low range of adjustments for quantity so when they add upgrades there is plenty of room for more fuel that is necessary. But we leave it so one could run a stock lid or something where less fuel was necessary.

customer wants to change cam say a hotcam stg 2 or 3 this change would generally require more fuel in the mid to high sectors of the map so the would add fuel in modes 2 and 3 but it will also change where the duration and peak lift comes into play.

A stg 2 cam is generally a mid-top end cam this means that you may want to change how the map relates for timing it might work better to have the accell mode or #2 to be a longer mode and you wanted to prevent the controller from jumping to the 3rd mode which handles the bulk of the fuel delivery so you would go to mode 6 and raise the setting making that mode come on at a later time

Or a stg 3 is generally a top end cam it might like to be in the 3rd mode longer so you want it to jump into mode 3 quicker which will carry the bulk of the fuel delivery earlier so you go to mode 6 and lower the setting(basically get more fuel quicker). Which also it may require the other handoffs to get altered so 4, and 5 may need to get lowered also to keep the fuel timing happy.

Hopefully I didnít over complicate it, itís really pretty easy to adjust and the above is just generalizations, the way we set each controller is very specific for each model of bike they all like different things and respond better to different curves which is the backend stuff we figure out so you donít have to.

Climate changes are much easier to adjust for


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post #10 of 14 Old 01-06-2010, 01:16 PM
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you didnt overcomplicate it for me, im pretty familiar with dyno tuning and such, if the updates are free then i would agree the ehs set-up is the best option for the original poster.i havent seen the autotune in action and i have the same concerns with it that you do, the desired air fuel setting in my opinion would be the same set up as a factory car, which we all know doesnt work as well as a true tune. but on the other hand each engine is different so to make those minute adjustments to each rpm range would require a dyno because every bike will want a different setting to be tuned perfect. i know exactly what the ehs tuner is capable of tuning wise and really am not skeptical of it after knowing the parameters are adjustable. but i am skeptical of the autotune because its new technology in the atv/bike tuning world and i really havent seen it in action yet. im leaning towards a ehs tuner with all of the ehs stuff(i really like the updated side holes on the airbox) myself honestly because its easy,customer service seems to be awesome and im not looking for every 10th of a horsepower, i just want it fairly tuned for my mods and not have to keep messing with the tune

2008 TRX 700XX (Black/Charcoal)
13T,Stage 1 hotcam,11:1 CP piston,L8ton Sway bar,Orange Maier Plastics,21" razr 1 front,ITP Sandstars on 10" ITP T9 Pro Series,FMF powerbomb/powercore.EHS programmer next.

2007 GSXR 1000 (Orange/Black)
-1,+2 Driven Kit,K&N, Full Leovince stainless exhaust,PcIIIUSB/Dyno tune,Hyperpro Damper,ASV Levers,Woodcraft Engine covers,Woodcraft Clipons,Xenon HID,Carrozzeria Wheels,Galfer Rotors(gsxr.com 2010 bike of the year)
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